Does God, really, only love Himself?

Sometimes when I think about it... it seems like, ultimately, God only loves Himself and not His people.

I'm not trying to be blasphemous here. It's a thought that bothers me from time to time, and would like to have someone else help me out here. Sometimes I feel like, God doesn't care about our wellbeing, our salvation, or anything. But ultimately, it all revolves around "God's glory". In other words, God seems to only do good things for his people, not because He loves us and wants to see us prosper... but because it brings Glory and honor to him. That's like a father only treating his kids good, because he wants to "look good" in front of other people... or because it brings him "honor"... as opposed to it being because he loves his kids.

I've even heard Christians say that God saves us, not for our own sake, not to save us, but because he wants our worship. Not so much He actually WANTS US, and wants a relationship with us... but just the Worship that we give him, and the Honor we bring Him.

So my thoughts on this are.

1. God sounds, very VERY Self-centered in this point of view. Every relationship seems to be centered around worshipping God, and not really being about His people. So every thing he does for His people, really is "selfish" in a sense, since he's doing it for personal gain only... to be worshiped, not because He loves us and wants us to love Him back.
2. Why would God, being God, need man for worship anyway? I'd think that a God would not need worship to bring Him honor and glory... but rather His honor and glory would be self-evident. So why would God even care about being worshiped?

the whole idea of god is kind of fishy. supposely he created us so we can worship him.

if i said i was going to create a species of animals or things so that they can worship me people would look at me like im crazy. right?

That's what I want the answer to.

Great questions. My thoughts:

If God loved anything more than Himself it would be idolatry. The reason God says for people to love Him more than anything else is not some lesson on self-abasement or selflessness, it's because He knows, as our creator, that He Himself is the most satisfying person/relationship that we can possible have. The cars, money, women, sports etc etc will not ultimately bring the joy He brings. He know this fact. He made us. That's His command. "Love and enjoy me as I am the most beautiful entity ever."

This is not selfish or narcissism. The reason it would be for man is because we are so broken. Why would we, in our utter brokenness, desire for anything to love us more than anything? What full goodness does man bring anyone? We are capable of okay things, but for sustained-meeting-needs purposes, we only end up short always.

Our worship of God does not make Him more complete or add to Him. It is His delight in us, for His glory and renown, to lavish upon us His own beauty. We reap the benefit of Him loving Himself as it resulted in the life, death, resurrection of Jesus and salvation/freedom for mankind. He created us to enjoy Him as it is a snippet of the truest joy and freedom we can experience.

God loves us immensely. He just doesn't love us more than Himself. If He did, He is in sin and a idolater. Be thankful that a beautiful and perfect God does not love us more than Himself...we are fickle and broken at our BEST.

Well first off, God in everything that God is, is, at times very hard to understand about what He is doing as a complete as far as God's will, or mission, according to man plays out, as we as humans most all the time do not know what God is doing now, or what God plans to do in the future concerning us.

That is without having the faith to believe what God has inspired men to say about Him.

I suppose here that the best reason that i can personally come up with concerning worship is that God, that is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is a God first-off, and foremost, and above all else, that is a soverign King that has no rival.

That is anywhere.

It is God's Kingship over all creation that has stemmed from that which all other monarchies, and kingdoms, that have ever existed on the earth, and that is past, and present, with no future at the present to hold them any longer.

Now, if you have noticed, you will see these royal types, that is kings, queens, princes, and princesses, and so on down the line, are at the present dwendling in numbers and prestigue here upon the earth right now.

So why has this happened?

Because most of them have done a terrible job at it?

Well no not really because God through His word, or the christian Bible, states, that He not only installs kings upon the earth, but also deposes them too, and some of these unto death for reasons that some times we as people do not fully understand.

But, there is one thing that the people of the earth should understand though, and that is when people personally begin to feel like that they have outgrown Him, that is God, within there own lives, and especially as a collective within any country that has ever existed, it is then that many adverse things will begin to happen to the people.

Anywhere.

Like young and unwise,''fools,'' being put in authority over us as the Bible states, and in my opinion what is happening in our own country right now, and in spades primarily for widespread rebellion right now toward God with the consequences of that going into evey single area of human life as to make people, negitivly aware, of what it is exactly that they are doing.

That is breeching God's own spiritual laws that were set in place by God even before God went forth to create, and creating for His own purposes and objectives, humans only being a part of it, even if to a substancial degree in which we are.

Understand this.

In the collective sense and this current situation will not subside, but only get worse until the people turn away from their eveil ways, repent and come back to God, as seeing Him as God, and King, or suffer even worse consequences even up to mass casualties among the people, even in that too mass invasion by a forgien enemy that God says that He personally has prepared for just such an occasion.

That being, one that is not able to be overcome under any known stratagies, or conditions, of any defensive posture to fight against it and prevail.

So why would a God who many has claimed to be only love do this toward anyone?

What do you think?

Thanks,

SAE

Here updated a little bit, please study this over a little more time than cursory.

Thanks.

I don't believe love is the absolute superseding trait of the father. I believe it's holiness. So, there is a sense that what seems unloving God may be punishing in His justice due to His Holy hatred of evil and its advocacy.

I am not sure I completely understood what you were asking or the point you were making. Sorry for me being dense, SAE

God created humans to be in relationship with. That means you.

For God so loved the world that he sent His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
That means he loves you.

He is also God, and by nature worthy of worship and praise. If we were to require worship and praise for ourselves, we are rightly to be judged as conceited and arrogant. But we are not God; He is not our peer. So we are again in the wrong if we project our proper restrictions on Him.

If we seek to understand God for who He is, not who we want Him to be or who WE would like to be, it clears up a lot of clutter.

The fact that the Creator of the universe loves you and took active measures to save you should set things in perspective. Yet He does not force Himself on anyone. You choose.

.

The Creation and the Atonement...all for God's children.

Moses 1:39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Nothing selfish about that, unless you view helping your children succeed as something selfish.

I gave it a good read multiple times; certainly not cursory. My confusion is you wrote quite declaratively (with good points) for most of the section and then seemingly introduce a question that is already covered in your verbiage above? You claim Him as a sovereign king and then at the end are wondering why a "loving" God would do everything you wrote about above even when you answered the question by calling Him first and foremost, sovereign.

I guess I'm having trouble wondering if your question is rhetorical or what the flow of your words is driving towards...

But if all His actions towards us, even something as radical as sending his Son to "die for us"... but if He did it only to bring Himself more glory... then really, that doesn't imply He really loves us.

You've been very clear in your questions. More simply, He loves us immensely. People aren't His ultimate passion, it's Himself. I don't think because He loves Himself most has to mean He has no love left for us? He loves us tons...for His glory.

Then define "Glory"?

Perhaps that is the word I'm misunderstanding here.

In this context: reputation, namesake, renown

So... yeah.. If all you care about, is your namesake... and EVERYTHING YOU DO Revolves around that, then you don't love anyone. If everything God does, is for His own glory... then, it seems like God does not love us *AT ALL*.

I guess I don't see your logic. If people go and paint a house and do it for the sake of helping others, is there not a capacity at the same time for them to do it for the benefit and sake of their ministry too, even if more ancillary than the principal motive of helping others? I think God is more than okay with doing everything for His name first and foremost AND the benefit/love of the people He acts for.

The alternate theology would be this: God loves us so much and acts principally for our benefit because man is so worthy of this adulation. I think it's bad. We simply aren't that wonderful for the One who created us to then praise us in all of our filth and brokenness above His own perfect self.

What I am saying is, it doesn't seem like God loves us, in a true sense... but rather, we are nothing more than instruments to reflect His glory off of.

I know of a guy who wants a wife, for no other reason, than it will glorify him, in the eyes of other people... and thinks the idea of marrying for love, is laughable. Obviously such a man has no love in his heart for anyone. Therefore... if God wants us to be in relationship with him, only for Glory's sake... then it implies He does not love us. If He wants to be in relationship with us, for the simple reason that He loves us, and wants to be with us... because we are His children... that is different.

I believe God loves us AND we are instruments for His glory. It seems like you're needing exclusivity and do not believe God loves us and can be more for His glory. I also think it's a dangerous proposition to ascribe God's motivations and feelings to what sinful man is capable of. This guy is just a perfect representation of our brokenness and sin, like we all have, and is alien to God's character. So, there is no therefore. This guy cannot be compared to God. Also, you've mentioned "only" a few times. It isn't "only" or "or", it's "and".

And I think this statement could epitomize our fall: "If He wants to be in relationship with us, for the simple reason that He loves us, and wants to be with us... because we are His children... that is different." The most important object in this sentence, the noun exalted, is not God, but man. Man being worthy of being so cherished and so praised by God. That's our plight; I believe each of us to some varying degree and in different manifestations wants to be king, to be most important. It's subtle, but a man-centered theology, though looking good on the outside, can be corrosive.

If God is the most beautiful being ever and King and Creator of all, I have no problem with Him being most for Himself first and loving His children, desiring their freedom and wholeness in a world telling them to be on their own and "get theirs",

Read these two chapters from Jeremiah. They are heartbreaking entreaties from God that read like they are from a husband to an unfaithful wife, or a father to a rebellious child.


Jeremiah chapter 2
1 The Lord gave me another message. He said, 2 “Go and shout this message to Jerusalem. This is what the Lord says:
“I remember how eager you were to please me
as a young bride long ago,
how you loved me and followed me
even through the barren wilderness.
3 In those days Israel was holy to the Lord,
the first of his children.[a]
All who harmed his people were declared guilty,
and disaster fell on them.
I, the Lord, have spoken!”

4 Listen to the word of the Lord, people of Jacob—all you families of Israel! 5 This is what the Lord says:

“What did your ancestors find wrong with me
that led them to stray so far from me?
They worshiped worthless idols,
only to become worthless themselves.
6 They did not ask, ‘Where is the Lord
who brought us safely out of Egypt
and led us through the barren wilderness—
a land of deserts and pits,
a land of drought and death,
where no one lives or even travels?’

7 “And when I brought you into a fruitful land
to enjoy its bounty and goodness,
you defiled my land and
corrupted the possession I had promised you.
8 The priests did not ask,
‘Where is the Lord?’
Those who taught my word ignored me,
the rulers turned against me,
and the prophets spoke in the name of Baal,
wasting their time on worthless idols.
9 Therefore, I will bring my case against you,”
says the Lord.
“I will even bring charges against your children’s children
in the years to come.

10 “Go west and look in the land of Cyprus[b];
go east and search through the land of Kedar.
Has anyone ever heard of anything
as strange as this?
11 Has any nation ever traded its gods for new ones,
even though they are not gods at all?
Yet my people have exchanged their glorious God[c]
for worthless idols!
12 The heavens are shocked at such a thing
and shrink back in horror and dismay,”
says the Lord.
13 “For my people have done two evil things:
They have abandoned me—
the fountain of living water.
And they have dug for themselves cracked cisterns
that can hold no water at all!

The Results of Israel’s Sin
14 “Why has Israel become a slave?
Why has he been carried away as plunder?
15 Strong lions have roared against him,
and the land has been destroyed.
The towns are now in ruins,
and no one lives in them anymore.
16 Egyptians, marching from their cities of Memphis[d] and Tahpanhes,
have destroyed Israel’s glory and power.
17 And you have brought this upon yourselves
by rebelling against the Lord your God,
even though he was leading you on the way!
18 “What have you gained by your alliances with Egypt
and your covenants with Assyria?
What good to you are the streams of the Nile[e]
or the waters of the Euphrates River?[f]
19 Your wickedness will bring its own punishment.
Your turning from me will shame you.
You will see what an evil, bitter thing it is
to abandon the Lord your God and not to fear him.
I, the Lord, the Lord of Heaven’s Armies, have spoken!

20 “Long ago I broke the yoke that oppressed you
and tore away the chains of your slavery,
but still you said,
‘I will not serve you.’
On every hill and under every green tree,
you have prostituted yourselves by bowing down to idols.
21 But I was the one who planted you,
choosing a vine of the purest stock—the very best.
How did you grow into this corrupt wild vine?
22 No amount of soap or lye can make you clean.
I still see the stain of your guilt.
I, the Sovereign Lord, have spoken!

Israel, an Unfaithful Wife
23 “You say, ‘That’not true!
I haven’t worshiped the images of Baal!’
But how can you say that?
Go and look in any valley in the land!
Face the awful sins you have done.
You are like a restless female camel
desperately searching for a mate.
24 You are like a wild donkey,
sniffing the wind at mating time.
Who can restrain her lust?
Those who desire her don’t need to search,
for she goes running to them!
25 When will you stop running?
When will you stop panting after other gods?
But you say, ‘Save your breath.
I’m in love with these foreign gods,
and I can’t stop loving them now!’
26 “Israel is like a thief
who feels shame only when he gets caught.
They, their kings, officials, priests, and prophets—
all are alike in this.
27 To an image carved from a piece of wood they say,
‘You are my father.’
To an idol chiseled from a block of stone they say,
‘You are my mother.’
They turn their backs on me,
but in times of trouble they cry out to me,
‘Come and save us!’
28 But why not call on these gods you have made?
When trouble comes, let them save you if they can!
For you have as many gods
as there are towns in Judah.
29 Why do you accuse me of doing wrong?
You are the ones who have rebelled,”
says the Lord.
30 “I have punished your children,
but they did not respond to my discipline.
You yourselves have killed your prophets
as a lion kills its prey.

31 “O my people, listen to the words of the Lord!
Have I been like a desert to Israel?
Have I been to them a land of darkness?
Why then do my people say, ‘At last we are free from God!
We don’t need him anymore!’
32 Does a young woman forget her jewelry?
Does a bride hide her wedding dress?
Yet for years on end
my people have forgotten me.

33 “How you plot and scheme to win your lovers.
Even an experienced prostitute could learn from you!
34 Your clothing is stained with the blood of the innocent and the poor,
though you didn’t catch them breaking into your houses!
35 And yet you say,
‘I have done nothing wrong.
Surely God isn’t angry with me!’
But now I will punish you severely
because you claim you have not sinned.
36 First here, then there—
you flit from one ally to another asking for help.
But your new friends in Egypt will let you down,
just as Assyria did before.
37 In despair, you will be led into exile
with your hands on your heads,
for the Lord has rejected the nations you trust.
They will not help you at all.

Jeremiah chapter 3
1 “If a man divorces a woman
and she goes and marries someone else,
he will not take her back again,
for that would surely corrupt the land.
But you have prostituted yourself with many lovers,
so why are you trying to come back to me?”
says the Lord.
2 “Look at the shrines on every hilltop.
Is there any place you have not been defiled
by your adultery with other gods?
You sit like a prostitute beside the road waiting for a customer.
You sit alone like a nomad in the desert.
You have polluted the land with your prostitution
and your wickedness.
3 That’s why even the spring rains have failed.
For you are a brazen prostitute and completely shameless.
4 Yet you say to me,
‘Father, you have been my guide since my youth.
5 Surely you won’t be angry forever!
Surely you can forget about it!’
So you talk,
but you keep on doing all the evil you can.”

Judah Follows Israel’s Example
6 During the reign of King Josiah, the Lord said to me, “Have you seen what fickle Israel has done? Like a wife who commits adultery, Israel has worshiped other gods on every hill and under every green tree. 7 I thought, ‘After she has done all this, she will return to me.’ But she did not return, and her faithless sister Judah saw this. 8 She saw that I divorced faithless Israel because of her adultery. But that treacherous sister Judah had no fear, and now she, too, has left me and given herself to prostitution. 9 Israel treated it all so lightly—she thought nothing of committing adultery by worshiping idols made of wood and stone. So now the land has been polluted. 10 But despite all this, her faithless sister Judah has never sincerely returned to me. She has only pretended to be sorry. I, the Lord, have spoken!”
Hope for Wayward Israel
11 Then the Lord said to me, “Even faithless Israel is less guilty than treacherous Judah! 12 Therefore, go and give this message to Israel.[a] This is what the Lord says:
“O Israel, my faithless people,
come home to me again,
for I am merciful.
I will not be angry with you forever.
13 Only acknowledge your guilt.
Admit that you rebelled against the Lord your God
and committed adultery against him
by worshiping idols under every green tree.
Confess that you refused to listen to my voice.
I, the Lord, have spoken!

14 “Return home, you wayward children,”
says the Lord,
“for I am your master.
I will bring you back to the land of Israel[b]—
one from this town and two from that family—
from wherever you are scattered.
15 And I will give you shepherds after my own heart,
who will guide you with knowledge and understanding.

16 “And when your land is once more filled with people,” says the Lord, “you will no longer wish for ‘the good old days’ when you possessed the Ark of the Lord’s Covenant. You will not miss those days or even remember them, and there will be no need to rebuild the Ark. 17 In that day Jerusalem will be known as ‘The Throne of the Lord.’ All nations will come there to honor the Lord. They will no longer stubbornly follow their own evil desires. 18 In those days the people of Judah and Israel will return together from exile in the north. They will return to the land I gave their ancestors as an inheritance forever.

19 “I thought to myself,
‘I would love to treat you as my own children!’
I wanted nothing more than to give you this beautiful land—
the finest possession in the world.
I looked forward to your calling me ‘Father,’
and I wanted you never to turn from me.
20 But you have been unfaithful to me, you people of Israel!
You have been like a faithless wife who leaves her husband.
I, the Lord, have spoken.”

21 Voices are heard high on the windswept mountains,
the weeping and pleading of Israel’s people.
For they have chosen crooked paths
and have forgotten the Lord their God.

22 “My wayward children,” says the Lord,
“come back to me, and I will heal your wayward hearts.”

“Yes, we’re coming,” the people reply,
“for you are the Lord our God.
23 Our worship of idols on the hills
and our religious orgies on the mountains
are a delusion.
Only in the Lord our God
will Israel ever find salvation.
24 From childhood we have watched
as everything our ancestors worked for—
their flocks and herds, their sons and daughters—
was squandered on a delusion.
25 Let us now lie down in shame
and cover ourselves with dishonor,
for we and our ancestors have sinned
against the Lord our God.
From our childhood to this day
we have never obeyed him.”

Remember:

8 But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. Romans 5:8

and

16For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Well, what i am trying to point out is, is that God, is for us, that being those who have been called by His Name.

Not trying to confuse here, but it is the truth all the same.

So what does this mean?

Well, it means that you if applicable, have been bought with a price, that price being the Blood of Jesus Christ.

And if this is true, and certainly applies to you, then for the lack of maybe a better way to put it, you have now been taken as a hostage by God, meaning that you since you came into this world through natural childbirth are being held as a security deposit, so to speak,or as a guaranty by God and through Jesus Christ as a testament to God's glory that you will finish the task, or mission, that God has set upon you to successfully fulfill those terms according to the obligation in which you were created for.

Remember, the Bible clearly states that you, me, nor anyone else was born, or borne, purly according to the physical determination between a man, and a woman.

In the spiritual sense the spiritual man who dwells within us all has been and is completely the handywork, and determination, of a loving God who wants to instruct people through the third person of the Trinity, or the Holy Spirit of God, because God wants to promote His subjects in such a way that brings Him the upmost satisfaction that stems out of this growth as to basically do two things while we are in our natural bodies down here on the earth.

And those two things are to love the Lord God with all that is within you, and then likewise love your fellow man in that same fashion, which is supposed to be based by us in a selfless kind of way being no respector of what a person acts like, position in life, physical appearance, and so on.

So, this is what God expects from us and not in a perfect way because for us temporarily now trapped within a physical body, we will definatly at times miss the mark, and standard, which is Christ and fail.

We know this if we are totally honest about it, just as God has always known about it too, but we are to ernestly, and faithfully, continue to be expected by God, due to this very noble and high calling to be like God expects us to be.

And that is to love unconditionally at the end of the process with high marks and ranking to show as approved unto the Standard.

''And greater things than these,'' He says!

There is a young man who claims as a small boy that after sustaining a serious health condition that he spiritually left his own body and then spent a short period of time in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now as it is for me, i am a little skeptical when these kinds of stories about this subject arise and also having a family member who claims this kind of event also which after questioning do not believe it at all because of the scriptural unsoundness according to this person's testamony concerning the experiance, and her general mindset about it which i believe is carnal by its nature, as to considering herself to be a spiritual super star, so to speak, because of it.

But, as this child, then four years old explained these events to his parents, the father being a minister of the gospel also, if the accounting is true, then by what he described about his experiance then in my mind there is no way that a young child like this could have possible know some of the things that he told his parents about.

But however that may be though, he did state that when he asked God, that is Jesus Christ, face to face why it was that He came and died for potentially everybody he said that the Lord of Hosts told him,''So that people could know My Dad who loves them very much.''

Through the eyes of a child as God has said that we all must be like.

But not in the sense of youthful ignorance, but in the sense of what real love is supposed to be like.

Like God is.

The worship part to me towards Him is mainly a way to say thanks, Dad, for remembering me too!

So then, how is it that i can pay for something that has no price labeled upon it nor can ever be sold?

Love in the way that God does, by allowing myself as a free moral agent to be refined by God while still upon the earth as a man toward other people and Him.

God is not a God who is self-centered because that would mean to me that God would have some issues about Him being God,or having a rival to His Throne.

And He does not on both accounts.

Thanks,

SAE

John 3:16.

Interesting topic. here are my .02$

GOD created man to be with Him in the garden of Eden. While we were there He walked with us in the cool of the day, and built a relationship with man during that time. Man, by his own free will, decided that he wanted to be like God. We {Man and Woman} then disobeyed his direct orders not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. After man became able to understand what Good and Evil were we were banished from the garden because we saw that we could live forever, in a state of sinfulness, if only we ate from the tree of life.

Look at the Children of Israel: God Still wanted a relationship with us. But because of our now sinful nature we created a barrier in the relationship we once had with Him. The Israelite had a struggled with their sinful nature and pleasing God. They left God time and time again to follow false gods and practices that displeased the Lord. But He never stopped chasing after them to call them His people. And each time they came back they offered a blood sacrifice to atone for their sins.

Then came Jesus Christ: God with us. God came in the form of a man to walk among his creation. Born of a Virgin. For 33 years he lived on this earth building a relationship with 12 men and preparing them to go out an preach the Word of God. Jesus also had a profound impact on people he met; so much to the point the had to tell others to keep his presence and what he did for them on the down low. He healed the sick, blind, mute, lame, demon possessed and got attention for what he did, then he told people to redirect the praise toward him up to The Father. When Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane he prayed to God for another option to redeem man, but the spilling of blood had to be payment for the Atonement of sins. Thus Christ, in His perfection, was the Perfect sacrifice. The Spotless Lamb.

When Christ was on the cross, The Lord had to look away from his only son, because he took on all the sins to allow us to be redeemed to God once more.

I guess what I am trying to say is that: God created us to have a relationship with us; but we broke it. He never stops perusing us, because we are his creation. The reason why worshiping God is important is because is one of the forms of thanks we can give him for what he did for us. We, as Christians, now have the promise of joining the Lord once more after death. Also worship is a way of realizing who God is and thanking him for all that he has made in this universe.

B62stew

That is the same reason we create anything ourselves.

Why does an author write a book? He already knows how it's going to end. He writes it to share his story with other people and they will also get enjoyment out of it. They in turn will give praise to the author.
This works with just about anything.
Music
Painting
Sculpture
Movies
Architecture.............

The song never has to be performed and can just as well stay in the head of the composer, unless he wants to share it with others. God created us to share in Himself. Which is greater than anything else we could enjoy.

I hope that helps.

Being created in the image of God is an extradionary gift.

Do you have children? If so - this is a mere glimpse of his love for us.

How very true Fooboy.

So when God's first two human creations failed the test that God had laid before them, why didn't God just destroy them and start all over again with mankind?

Well first off, God, being God certainly knew that they would fall into a state of rebellion against Him.

But, however that was for the first two, they, and all other people who have proceeded and decended from them were altered and changed forever at least in the physical state of man as cursed, and then spiritually broken also, as opposed to being in an upright state with God from the begining with Him.

But, as the Bible clearly states, that God, that being who He is and the representation of His exact image of justice, mercy, and love toward all of us has not changed.

So how do we know this?

Because we as the fallen by the letter of God's own law pertaining to us all as a death sentence, now has been graciously commuted toward us by God through Jesus Christ, that being, the love of God the Father toward us also, even unto the death of the cross by His only begotten Son, so as to seal us who have been called by His name unto redemption because of what God did for us as a master plan, and the foremation of that for eternal life, and with purpose potentially for all of the people who ever lived.

With God in family as Husbandman, and King.

And to me, this is love and without an equal or parallel, that is, in stature and in strength, not occurring anywhere else or at any time by this magnitude and grace God has shed for us.

For God's love for us stands alone, and is a solid foundation to be potentially built upon by the all of mankind so as to honor Him back and show others a reflection of that love for all of the things that He has done for us who share in that love now!

With God, and for God, who has graciously and by command shown us how to draw strength from this to impact all peoples of the earth about God's truth in Jesus Christ, and about Him as our witness to that truth!

Thanks,

SAE

The premise of the OP's question reminds me of a plot point from And Eternity by Piers Anthony. IIRC, the female protagonist finally takes her quest all the way to God and finds HIm narcissistically staring at a reflection upon reflection of Himself, totally oblivious to the outside world. I thought then, as I think now, that God could be taken that way by folk that don't really understand Him. And who really understands God? :)

But I think one aspect of His character is his absolute love for His creation. He didn't create us to glorify Himself inasmuch as He created us so He could enjoy a one-on-one, deeply personal relationship with each of us, and each of us with Him. We need look no further than the gift of free will. If He wanted His creation to be totally about Himself, He would have stopped with angels. But by allowing us the freedom to choose our god, he demonstrates His ultimate love for us. Ultimate, true love is not about control, manipulation, or enslavement; it is about relationship, intimacy, and freedom.

Amen.

Recently, I had some interesting thoughts about my belief in God.

1. If we believe that God is omniscient, they He already knows everything we will need and or ask for before we ask for, or need it. From the moment of our birth, He would know exactly what we will need or want 30, 40, 80 years later. So, there would be no benefit to ask Him for anything. If anything, we would be wasting His time and ours.

2. If I believe that God is perfect, he would not "need" our praise, nor prayers. Any God that is "needy" like that would indicate either insecurity, vanity, arrogance, or all. I do not believe God is any of those.

3. I made knives for many years. I knew about every flaw in any knife I made, no matter how small. Even if no one else ever saw it, I knew that the flaw was there. If I believe that God created us, He created us precisely as He wanted us to be....flaws, and all. He gave us our flaws by design, not by accident, so it would not make any sense for Him to be angry, or disappointed with us for exhibiting the very flaws He put into us. Those flaws are there because God wanted them there.

4. God has a sense of humor. For proof, look at the animal kingdom. Giraffe, duck billed platypus, hedgehog, monkey, elephant and so many others.

5. Although the Old Testament says that God gave woman to be man's companion, the dog sure ranks up there pretty highly for most men.

Very interesting, indeed!

1) God knows but He desires the interaction with us. By coming to Him with our needs and wants, or fears and joys, we do not waste His time, or ours; we bless His time, and ours.
2) God does not "need" our praise or prayers; by right as our Creator and the Sovereign, He deserves them.
3) It makes perfect sense. He's not disappointed or angry that we exhibited those flaws, He's angry and disappointed that we were not obedient enough to rely on Him to overcome those flaws, and arrogant enough to believe we don't need His help with our flaws. Just like your knives cannot fix their flaws themselves, neither can we. Your knives need you to fix them, to mend them, to re-form them; in a sense, you are God to those knives which rely on you for perfection. I wish I could be as useful as a knife in the hands of God.
4) I see God's sense of humor in the mirror. Every. Single. Day. :D
5) There's an old joke: Lock your dog and your wife in the truck of your car for four hours. When you open the trunk, the one who's glad to see you is your truest friend. :D

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.