Opinions on ATP Flight School?

I'm 25 and I've been a non-select for the Navy SNA program twice now. Going up for a third try here in the next few months. Looking for other options to consider at this point. My father is an Airbus Captain at United and heard about this school.

They have a fast track program to get all my certifications in 150 days. I've got 12 hours in a Warrior including one hour of solo, but that was when I was 17 or 18.

Does anyone have any opinion or advice about this school or program? I live in Orlando and they have a location in Daytona, which isn't too far from me.

Any information would be appreciated as well.

I've seen their Seminoles all over the freaking state. They're pervasive. I would try to find-as-you go, if at all possible. Starting wages for an FO, assuming you can even find work, are not going to favorably compare to the student loans that will be required to knock out a PPL, IFR, Commercial, and multi in 150 days...

It used to be a good school, it has been many years since i had any involvement with them so I can't say if they have changed. Understand that even though you will have all of your ratings, you will also be a veeeery inexperienced pilot with a lot to learn. You will be drinking from a fire hose of knowledge.

Assuming that being a pilot is your DREAM, and you cannot be dissuaded:

If there were a plethora of good jobs waiting for you after training, then I would say go to ATP or some place like it. However, since there are few good jobs and you are likely looking at a decade of poor wages ahead, I personally would be more concerned about the cost of the training program as opposed to the pace.

Also, understand that when you finish at ATP, you will be qualified to be a flight instructor. With few exceptions, there are virtually no other avenues of employment for a pilot with no experience, so plan on working as a CFI for 1,000-1,500 hours. Could you get another job before flying those hours? Yes, but don't plan on it.

In years past, a good CFI, at a busy school, could rack up 80-100 hours a month in climates with good flying weather. These days, the demand for flight training is not what it used to be, so do your best to make a game plan that puts you where the remaining students are. If ATP will agree to hire you if you finish their program, that may be an option. Have a plan B though. You want to get opportunities to instruct, or at least to be able to rent a twin. Find out what a prospective school/employer's minimums are for twins. Will you be able to meet those minimums as a result of completing whatever program you are enrolling in?

Forum member Pilotmcgruber works for a flight school that trains foreign students (Chinese I think). Hit him up and see what kind of hours he's getting these days to get a feel for how long it will take you to get up to ATP/135 minimums.

I went to ATP 1.5 years ago. I didn't finish my CFI certificates but got through CSEL/CMEL/IA.

It is all going to depend what kind of person you are and your instructors. I had a great time because everything goes so fast and my instructor was awesome. Really cool guy who liked to have fun and I was picking up skill fast.

When I got to the XC portion we flew with another student. One of us was under the hood and the other was a saftey pilot. This portion wasn't very enjoyable because the 3 guys who I flew with were absolutely horrible pilots. This is one of the downsides of ATP... It's a pilot mill and if you don't apply yourself or you get a shitty CFI, you end up paying the price.

When I got to CSEL, I had to switch instructors and the new guy wasn't very good at all.

I saw that you were in the Navy. Last I heard, ATP lost their pt 141 status. You may want to look for another 141 school if that's still the case.

If you're set on being a professional pilot and you can afford to make $12k a year, if you're at all decent, you can get a job as a CFI with them. My first instructor was getting 100 ME hours a month. ALL of their CFIs are wanting/trying to become pilots for commercial airlines. I had a CFI tell me that if that wasn't my goal, he didn't want to take me as a student.

My thought at the time was to move to Alaska or something "fun". Still workin on that.

Army WOFT.

Anyway, I got my Multi add on with ATP. I thought it was a good time, worth the money, and I would recommend them.

An additional thought:

I had a CFI once who told me that it wasn't his job to teach students to fly. He said his job was to protect the lives and property of others while I taught myself how to fly.

Now maybe that wasn't exactly right, and certainly not proper to say, but there is more than a grain of truth to it.

Plan on whatever training you receive to be narrowly focused, and that you will frequently employ rote memorization to pass tests on material whose theory you may not truly understand. You will often be left to figure things out on your own, because they were either left out of your training or not understood by your instructor. If you don't excel at independent study, flying may not be the career for you.

We won't hire ATP instructors to teach with us because they can't seem to teach.

ATP is boxed checkride after boxed checkride. Why do you think the Atlanta campus makes all their CFI students go to FL for their checkrides.

Thanks for the replies.

To clarify, I'm not currently in the Navy. I was applying for a commission as a Naval Aviator, but haven't been selected...yet? Applying again for the next selection board.

I'm going to contact the Army for the Warrant Officer program and see what they say. Flying is a passion of mine, I grew up around it. It has been my goal since my father snuck me into a P3 simulator when I was five.

I started taking flight lessons when I was a senior in high school and solo'ed at 10 hours, the hurricanes in 2004 caused my flight school to go under and I never got much further.

I've got a bachelors and have strong study skills, and I am very mechanically inclined.

I really want to fly. I spoke with an advisor at ATP today and got some information. I'm going to try and get out there for a intro flight soon.

No...Absolutely not...Don't do it...Set yourself on fire first! ATP is not 141 so that means no GI bill and you'll be paying for it out of your pocket. If you've got that kind of cash to put a way then save it for retirement, if not that means you'll finance it and that's no bueno.

I have tons of first hand experience with ATP in JAX and I am less than impressed. Twice I had students come over and take a "taxi lesson" from me because their instructors wouldn't let them taxi the plane and they needed to learn how to do it. I checked out their instructors in our planes and some of them were flat out denied, they shouldn't have soloed a lawn mower! I have a great story about how "to do an emergency descent in a diamond" which ended up in an accelerated stall and a grown man screaming and flailing like a swimming cat.

Having said that, there are some really top notch guys that come out of those programs. Hell, I did my ATP training with ATP in Texas but I already knew how to fly before I got there.

Long story short, it's not worth the time or money for you.

Look, I know what you are going through. My grandfather was a B17 pilot in WW2 and a career Pan Am Captain. My father is a retired USMC O6 who flew F4s and F18s, as well as being a Check Airman for AA. I know nothing else besides flying, well, and guns too, but that is another story.

Helicopter might seem strange to you. They dont go Mach 2, pull 9 Gs, or get A to A kills. Most fixed wing guys dont understand them, so they think they are dumb or for shitty pilots. My Dad doesnt understand how they are controlled, let alone how they fly

If they only knew.

They are a fucking blast. Treetop at 80kts beats FL350, autopilot, Mach .75 every time, and twice on Sundays. The Army flies the best helicopters money can buy. Half of our fleet are gunships. If you want doors off gunship action, the 58 is here waiting for you. If you want the best weapon FLIR tech on the planet, and want to shoot people with 30mm with damn near impunity, the Apache is waiting for you. If you want to fly one of the most battle tested lift helicopters that just got one of the best glass cockpits and avionics packages out there, the Blackhawk is waiting for you. If you want to fly a school bus with enough power to warp the Earths crust, the Chinook is out there. Oh, and its also the fastest one in the fleet.

So walk into an Army recruiters office, ask to start a WOFT packet. If they balk, find another recruiter.

OP, what makes you a BMF?

I would not do a crash course in flying to get your ratings. It won't give you much in terms of experience, which is really what matters. I got my private, inst, comm from a smaller college in the in the midwest (Ohio). I wouldn't trade it for anything. Good people that cared about the instruction you received, decent weather for training since it was always changing, and it was a really good time. They won't guarantee any type of jobs on the outside, or even an interview, that's up to you. But all my CFIs networked pretty well and got good jobs. I was AFROTC so I didn't really continue the ratings beyond what was required of the degree, or else I wouldn't have graduated on-time (which you need to do once you contract with the military).

Ask yourself why you are wanting to fly? Is it your professional goal? Do you want to be an airline captain one day? Do you want to be a military pilot? Some other type of pilot? We need screechjet in here, that's for sure. Flying is a pretty shitty profession in terms of job stability, pay, family, etc. Even most of the military guys I know have pretty low morale right now. Rough time to be in the military, lots of cuts these days, reduced flying hours, misdirected priorities, etc. I know you just love flying, but consider just keeping it a hobby. Find a better way to live.



Oh, CFII I had considered helo––-briefly. One of my instructors in UPT that was a helo guy told me that 40% of the guys in his helo class had been involved in accidents. Granted he was an old crusty major (you know how aviation goes, the longer you've been in, the more people you know that have been involved in shit). That was a pretty huge turnoff for me. You got cojones.

edited.

Anyway, helicopter flying puts us into some dangerous modes of flight, but hey, I have airbags

With the rotor wing time I do have and your description I really, really regret not being able to fly for the Army.

You are getting in at a great time. Major pilot shortage is around the corner.

I will do that. I had visited an Army office and wanted info on WOFT or a Officer programs and they spent the entire time trying to convince me to just enlist.

Yeah, I really wanted to do Military aviation but it's just moving slow right now.

I'm going to try and get in touch with the coast guard and USMC too. I was just looking for opinions.

As for the pilot shortage, that's what my father has been mentioning. As long as I can make a living, i'll be ok. I've got my monthly bills down to about $1k a month and i'm trying to save up.

As for my screen name, I had just seen pulp fiction when I signed up. But, I'm white and currently work armed security in some of the worst parts of Orlando (Orange blossom trail) lol.

I wish CFII had been around ten years ago, yelling this in my ear.

Keep repeating this to yourself:

There is no pilot shortage.
There is no pilot shortage.
There is no pilot shortage.....and there NEVER will be...EVER.

Flight schools and universities drone on and on about the pilot shortage because it keeps them employed. There are still thousands of out of work airline pilots who have been waiting on a recall letter that will never come.

Emphasis on the above points, incase anyone glosses over them.

And why will there never be a pilot shortage? Because there are too many people out there that just love to fly so much that they'll underbid each other and will work for peanuts. As been said many times, ever since day 1 of manned flight there has never been a pilot shortage. Even the Wright brothers had to flip a coin to see who would fly since there were two of them and only one plane.

But hey, its your dream. Go for it. You might get lucky.

I came here to post this.

You need to be a WO.

Talked to my Navy recruiter today, i'm going up for another board for Naval Aviator. Looks like it will be in June.

Also, I went to a different Army recruiter and i'm working on putting a package together for Warrant Officer. I take the ASVAB thurday, I got an 86 on the pretest they had on the computers in the office.

I think I will also contact my local USMC OSO office and see what they have to say while I am at it.

If I can't get picked up at any of those, I am considering enlisting to eventually go Warrant Officer or to OCS.

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.