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What is the effective range of a Civil War canon?
6/13/2009 10:40:05 PM
What is the effective range of a Civil War canon? I'm gorging on Fredericksburg history and day dreaming about what actually happened on the battlefield between the Rappahannock River and Marye's Heights (well under 1 mile), and fighting happening at closer range than that, like a few hundred yards.
6/13/2009 11:07:20 PM
Take this from were it is coming from...
Wikipedia
I Google it for you and found all this...
Google
Looks like maybe 400 yards
Wikipedia
I Google it for you and found all this...
Looks like maybe 400 yards
6/13/2009 11:15:45 PM
The concept of battlefield indirect fire was 'figured out' right around that time - artillery prior to that was pretty much a direct-fire weapon...
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
6/13/2009 11:44:28 PM
My interest in the range is to understand how much canon fire from Marye's Heights could/did reach the actual town of Fredericksburg, which lies a half mile (880 yards) to the east. I think the town was sacked by Union troops and was not necessarily damaged from the battle raging in the open field in front of it.
I work in Fredericksburg and see this stuff daily. The original battlefield is covered by development now, with only the hill of Marye's Heights preserved as a national cemetery.
I work in Fredericksburg and see this stuff daily. The original battlefield is covered by development now, with only the hill of Marye's Heights preserved as a national cemetery.
6/14/2009 10:05:58 AM
12 pdr smoothbores, with the right gunlayer, can hit a tree at a mile's distance. I've read about sharpshooters being taken out by artillerymen at that range.
6/18/2009 12:04:30 PM
Ive shot many a numerous civil war piece with live exploding ammo.
We can effectively and accurately hit a target at 2200 meters with a 10lb parrot rifle. And further with a 20lb.
Problem is line of sight and being able to see your target. Rifled guns can reach out there, as long as you can see it. Visiting little round top at Gettysburg is quite scary when you see teh Federal artillery has a direct line of sight on to picketts charge on the 3rd day. Must have been like shooting fish in a barrel.
We can effectively and accurately hit a target at 2200 meters with a 10lb parrot rifle. And further with a 20lb.
Problem is line of sight and being able to see your target. Rifled guns can reach out there, as long as you can see it. Visiting little round top at Gettysburg is quite scary when you see teh Federal artillery has a direct line of sight on to picketts charge on the 3rd day. Must have been like shooting fish in a barrel.
6/18/2009 12:32:11 PM
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
The concept of battlefield indirect fire was 'figured out' right around that time - artillery prior to that was pretty much a direct-fire weapon...
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
The concept of battlefield indirect fire was 'figured out' right around that time - artillery prior to that was pretty much a direct-fire weapon...
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
You sure about that?
...on April 12, 1861, at 4:30 A.M., Confederate Army Lieutenant Henry S. Farley pulled the lanyard on his mortar at Fort Johnson, South Carolina. The shell he fired arched high over Charleston harbor and exploded above Fort Sumter, thus beginning the first sustained artillery duel of the Civil War...
...The familiar bronze Coehorn mortar was classified as a siege and garrison weapon. Named after its Dutch inventor, Baron Menno van Coehoorn (1641-1701)...(the Coehorn could throw an 8 1/2 lb shell 800 yards)
from here:http://www.civilwarartillery.com/basicfacts.htm
6/19/2009 1:58:10 AM
There was also one incident where an officer figured out and used howitzers for indirect fire.
Concerning mortars, the guys got really good at them. They knew just how much powder to use to lob the shell right into the hole they wanted. As the shell arched through the sky, men would jump from their holes––into the line of fire of sharpshooters who were coordinating their shots with their mortar-man pard.
Concerning mortars, the guys got really good at them. They knew just how much powder to use to lob the shell right into the hole they wanted. As the shell arched through the sky, men would jump from their holes––into the line of fire of sharpshooters who were coordinating their shots with their mortar-man pard.
6/29/2009 12:44:23 AM
Originally Posted By 4v50:
12 pdr smoothbores, with the right gunlayer, can hit a tree at a mile's distance. I've read about sharpshooters being taken out by artillerymen at that range.
12 pdr smoothbores, with the right gunlayer, can hit a tree at a mile's distance. I've read about sharpshooters being taken out by artillerymen at that range.
Wasnt this with rifled cannon like the Parrott and the Ordinance Rifle on a very very good day?. 12 pounder Napoleons were good with shot and shell out to about 1000 yards although they would shoot further. With canister, inside 350 yards was good.
My 3/4 scale Parrott will shoot easily a mile but its impossible for me to hit anything at that distance.
6/29/2009 5:07:50 AM
Originally Posted By Seabee_Mech:
You sure about that?
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/Seabee_Mech/military/Civil-War-Mortars-13inch.jpg
...on April 12, 1861, at 4:30 A.M., Confederate Army Lieutenant Henry S. Farley pulled the lanyard on his mortar at Fort Johnson, South Carolina. The shell he fired arched high over Charleston harbor and exploded above Fort Sumter, thus beginning the first sustained artillery duel of the Civil War...
...The familiar bronze Coehorn mortar was classified as a siege and garrison weapon. Named after its Dutch inventor, Baron Menno van Coehoorn (1641-1701)...(the Coehorn could throw an 8 1/2 lb shell 800 yards)
from here:http://www.civilwarartillery.com/basicfacts.htm
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
The concept of battlefield indirect fire was 'figured out' right around that time - artillery prior to that was pretty much a direct-fire weapon...
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
The concept of battlefield indirect fire was 'figured out' right around that time - artillery prior to that was pretty much a direct-fire weapon...
Beyond that, communications hampered the ability to use fires in a way we would today....
You sure about that?
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd121/Seabee_Mech/military/Civil-War-Mortars-13inch.jpg
...on April 12, 1861, at 4:30 A.M., Confederate Army Lieutenant Henry S. Farley pulled the lanyard on his mortar at Fort Johnson, South Carolina. The shell he fired arched high over Charleston harbor and exploded above Fort Sumter, thus beginning the first sustained artillery duel of the Civil War...
...The familiar bronze Coehorn mortar was classified as a siege and garrison weapon. Named after its Dutch inventor, Baron Menno van Coehoorn (1641-1701)...(the Coehorn could throw an 8 1/2 lb shell 800 yards)
from here:http://www.civilwarartillery.com/basicfacts.htm
Speaking of field guns/howitzers, not siege equipment...
Mortars back then were quite cumbersome...
6/29/2009 2:16:17 PM
First use of indirect fire from a howitzer in the ACW was in May 1863 in what is now Fayetteville West Virginia.
Indirect Fire
Indirect Fire
6/29/2009 9:36:51 PM
arty6pd - I've read accounts, but don't know where now. It'll be in my manuscript on the blackpowder sharpshooter.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
6/30/2009 4:52:39 AM
Originally Posted By 4v50:
arty6pd - I've read accounts, but don't know where now. It'll be in my manuscript on the blackpowder sharpshooter.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
arty6pd - I've read accounts, but don't know where now. It'll be in my manuscript on the blackpowder sharpshooter.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
Still, mortars were viewed as siege weapons, not field guns...
6/30/2009 5:35:31 AM
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Still, mortars were viewed as siege weapons, not field guns...
Originally Posted By 4v50:
arty6pd - I've read accounts, but don't know where now. It'll be in my manuscript on the blackpowder sharpshooter.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
arty6pd - I've read accounts, but don't know where now. It'll be in my manuscript on the blackpowder sharpshooter.
Dave_A - there were small coehorn mortars that could be carried by four men. Some were used by Gen. Alfred Terry's troops for the Siege of Battery Wagner. They were also used at the Siege of Petersburg. At Vicksburg, since Grant didn't have any mortars, they burned out some tree stumps, looped it with iron to reinforce it and used them as improvised mortars. The Corn-feds did the same thing, sans iron hoops.
Still, mortars were viewed as siege weapons, not field guns...
Even so at 800 yards range, they are high trajectory direct fire weapons.
6/30/2009 7:59:57 AM
Real effective indirect fire in the US military was not available until 1904 when the army bought its first Panoramic telescopes from the French. This also when the Mil entered the US military. It, the mil, was and still is 1/6400 of a circle and not the often misquoted Milliradian.
Through the years the indirect fire system has been refined, the methods used in WWI were of course different than used during WWII. What most people who have worked in an FDC would recognized were developed in the 1950s.
Through the years the indirect fire system has been refined, the methods used in WWI were of course different than used during WWII. What most people who have worked in an FDC would recognized were developed in the 1950s.
6/30/2009 8:19:12 AM
Taken from THE CIVIL WAR SOLDIER "Forward into battery! March!"
http://www.nps.gov/archive/gett/soldierlife/artillery.htm
1.2.9-inch (10-pounder) Parrott Rifle. The 10-pounder Parrotts used during the Gettysburg Campaign had an effective range of over 2,000 yards. The 5th New York Battery was composed of six 20-pounder Parrotts.
2. 3.8-inch James Rifle. The James Rifle was a bronze rifle similar in shape to the 3-inch Ordnance Rifle, and was produced by the Ames Manufacturing Company of Chicopee, Massachusetts. It was not a widely used cannon in either army, though the 2nd Connecticut Battery was armed them at Gettysburg. The James Rifle fired a 14-pound elongated shell and were accurate up to 1,700 yards.
3. 2.75-inch Whitworth Rifle. Fired an elongated 12-pound iron shell which fit snuggly into the fine rifling of the tube they were extremely accurate and could fire a solid shot beyond 2,800 yards.
4. 12-pounder bronze gun, Model of 1857. This powerful cannon could fire explosive shell and solid shot up to a mile and charges of canister up to 300 yards with accuracy.
http://www.nps.gov/archive/gett/soldierlife/artillery.htm
1.2.9-inch (10-pounder) Parrott Rifle. The 10-pounder Parrotts used during the Gettysburg Campaign had an effective range of over 2,000 yards. The 5th New York Battery was composed of six 20-pounder Parrotts.
2. 3.8-inch James Rifle. The James Rifle was a bronze rifle similar in shape to the 3-inch Ordnance Rifle, and was produced by the Ames Manufacturing Company of Chicopee, Massachusetts. It was not a widely used cannon in either army, though the 2nd Connecticut Battery was armed them at Gettysburg. The James Rifle fired a 14-pound elongated shell and were accurate up to 1,700 yards.
3. 2.75-inch Whitworth Rifle. Fired an elongated 12-pound iron shell which fit snuggly into the fine rifling of the tube they were extremely accurate and could fire a solid shot beyond 2,800 yards.
4. 12-pounder bronze gun, Model of 1857. This powerful cannon could fire explosive shell and solid shot up to a mile and charges of canister up to 300 yards with accuracy.
6/30/2009 11:29:17 PM
#3 The whitworth rifle..... Few got in the south but they were beloved by rebel gunners.
6/30/2009 11:51:19 PM
At the 1st Battle of Fredericksburg, there was a 30 pound Parrott on Howison Hill.
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
7/1/2009 12:47:03 AM
30 pound Parrot guns had a rang of 6,700 yards.
7/1/2009 12:42:43 PM
Originally Posted By Lexington:
At the 1st Battle of Fredericksburg, there was a 30 pound Parrott on Howison Hill.
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
At the 1st Battle of Fredericksburg, there was a 30 pound Parrott on Howison Hill.
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
That is a beast of a cannon. I was not aware that any Parrott rifles over 20# were ever used in the field. A typical field artillery piece required a team of 6 horses to haul the gun and caisson IIRC; does anyone have any idea how many men and horses were required to move and service a piece of this size?
7/1/2009 5:28:26 PM
Originally Posted By PennsylvaniaExpat:
That is a beast of a cannon. I was not aware that any Parrott rifles over 20# were ever used in the field. A typical field artillery piece required a team of 6 horses to haul the gun and caisson IIRC; does anyone have any idea how many men and horses were required to move and service a piece of this size?
Originally Posted By Lexington:
At the 1st Battle of Fredericksburg, there was a 30 pound Parrott on Howison Hill.
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
At the 1st Battle of Fredericksburg, there was a 30 pound Parrott on Howison Hill.
"A large 30 pounder Parrot was among the guns at this location. This type of guns are classified as siege artillery and not usually found on a battlefield. Besides one here, the Confederates had one on Lee's Hill."
http://www.nps.gov/frsp/photosmultimedia/howisonhill.htm
(I can go take a photo better than shown at this link.)
Also found this: http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-frsp.html
That is a beast of a cannon. I was not aware that any Parrott rifles over 20# were ever used in the field. A typical field artillery piece required a team of 6 horses to haul the gun and caisson IIRC; does anyone have any idea how many men and horses were required to move and service a piece of this size?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrott_rifle
7/1/2009 5:36:27 PM
Look for Parrott rifle.
7/2/2009 7:43:42 PM
The Federal artillerists on Morris Island used to target the sandbags that the Confederate Whitworth sharpshooters hid behind. By destroying their sandbags, they had fewer places to shoot from. This resulted in lowered morale among the Whitworth sharpshooters. Confederate Lt. Gen. Pierre G. T. Beauregard praised them highly and thought they were more effective in prolonging the siege than was the artillery service.
8/28/2009 2:02:56 AM
Rifled versus smooth bore versus whatchya shootin'
9/8/2009 8:42:45 AM
One of the Confederate generals(not sure which one? Polk maybe) was intentionaly sniped off his horse with a shot or three from a 3" rifled gun.
Sources vary, but supposidly either the first or third shot cleaned the Confederate general off his horse after a gun crew was ordered to clear some snooping Confederate officers off of a overlooking hill.
Artillery technology may not have been as advanced as today, but the 'Red Legs' skill with the guns they had was not lacking.
Sources vary, but supposidly either the first or third shot cleaned the Confederate general off his horse after a gun crew was ordered to clear some snooping Confederate officers off of a overlooking hill.
Artillery technology may not have been as advanced as today, but the 'Red Legs' skill with the guns they had was not lacking.
9/9/2009 9:23:12 PM
I was at Gettysburg over the weekend, they had some reenactors representing Purcell's battalion giving a REAL LIVE demo. Somebody asked your question and was told a little over a mile, depending on the type of gun, powder charge etc. Anything over that was guess and by golly. Shells and cannon balls could travel farther but no accuracy.
9/11/2009 8:20:02 PM
Here is the canon that is on display at Howison Hill in Fredericksburg. The 1st Battle of Fredericksburg (the big one) was in Dec. 1862. This canon is dated 1864, and I think I read somewhere that it is a Union piece.
