Is it worth getting an AK in 5.45x39 for SHTF?

I was thinking of getting an Saiga in 5.45. But I'm worried about mag/ammo availability if SHTF? Is this a real issue? What about VEPR in 7.62x39, and AK mags?

IMO yes. It's not a common item.

Because I was originally thinking of getting a VEPR in either 5.45, or 5.56. But he magazine issues (and the ammo issues for the 5.45) have made me rethink that. What about 7.62x39, and Russian AK mags?

I have an AR-15 chambered in 5.45x39, not exclusively for a SHTF gun but more for cheaper training when I go to the range. The cost of 5.56 has gone through the roof lately! I can still get 5.45 for 13 to 14 cents a round versus 40 to 50 cents a round for 5.56. You can't get the same realistic recoil and performance out of a .22 caliber AR-15! On the plus side if I happen to come across a large stockpile of 5.45 I am covered. Also if I run out of 5.45 then I can ditch the 5.45 upper receiver and slap on another 5.56 upper.

This is the direction I went also. When the Ak74's were less than $500, it made sense. Not any more. For another $200 or so you can have a complete AR in 5.45. Your AR mags will work also, but have to be down loaded to 15 or so. The 5.45 mags are still pretty cheap at ~$13 for the AR when you can find them. I like the AK, but its not worth it when its almost as much as a AR that you can swap the upper to 5.56 if needed. The AK is single use. You run out of 5.45 and you are done.

5.45 is cheap. magazines are expensive. 7.62x39 is moderately priced in both ammo and magazines. Ammo is commercially available as well. AK parts are for the most part interchangeable and they are everywhere. Perhaps you should also look at that possibility. Remember the SAIGA will need work to accept 30 round magazines though.

" You run out of 5.45 and you are done." you run out of any ammo and you are "done". No Wally worlds will be open, so you should probably have what you think you need on hand. What can you afford now? I doubt people are going to be in a sharing mood with their "common" calibers if things go down like you are thinking.

I have great success with the old GI magazines with the green follower loaded to 25 rounds. I just have to finess and tap the rounds to the rear as I'm loading them. The new magazines for the 5.45 AR can be found at AIM surplus and CDNN online.

Saigas should be the cheapest 5.45 AK you can find now. In 5.45, the standard commie 30 rd mag fits but has feeding issues on the last round unless you add a bullet guide. I've heard the 7.62 Saiga takes more work to use 30 rd mags. Surplus 5.45 mags hard to find now, may improve in the future, more surplus ammo should be coming but may cost a little more.

The thing is I'm not trying to get an AR, I am looking more towards some AK variant.

If that is what you want, rock out.

buy all the ammo you will ever need now and don't plan on being able to ever get any more if the SHTF.


...


then again ....

the same should be applied to any firearm should the SHTF.

For the cost of a VEPR, i think you can get a 47 or 74 and a case or two of ammo plus magazines. Not sure about parts availability. I know some are different than the standard AK. You live in New York, can you even have 30 round magazines there? If not, i'd go with Saiga in 5.45 because 10 round magazines will probably cost the same for either. Ammo is cheaper for the 5.45 though. Get it, get proficient with it, stock up on ammo and magazines. My 2 cents.

I'm quite happy with my AK47 Yugo underfolder in 223. Plenty of 30 rnd mags are available from Ohio RapidFire. Rifles are available on Gunbroker. My $.02

There's ammo and magazines to be had, just a little more and you have to look around.

It's my understanding that the 5.45 shoots flatter and reaches a little farther than 7.62x39 and tends to tumble on impact, so it's a better man stopper than the 7.62. But the 7.62 penetrates barriers better.

I have a good bit of 7.62x39, so the ak i get will be in that flavor, but if I was stocking up from scratch I'd probably go 5.45.

I read studies that said the performance was similar in tissue to the 5.56. What you said was spot on though about trajectory and barrier penetration. But not to rain on anyone's parade, the possibility of all out anarchy and shootouts in America is pretty slim. If anything you'll be protecting your home or neighborhood. If everyone had a .22 the hoard would move on to easier pickings. A person proficient with almost any firearm will be well ahead of the curve.

Stockpile everything. Someday AK 5.45x39mm AKs will be like 7.65x53mm Argentine Mausers (once so plentiful and cheap).

I used to have 5.45x39mm AKs as my "plan". After a lot of review, I ditched it all for ARs.

I did some looking recently when I was thinking about shooting more. Cost between an AK variant in 5.45 and an AR upper in that caliber are about a wash–– unless you go for a Saiga. Still, as a trunk gun, a Saiga and a sardine can of ammo have a lot to be said for them.

In the end, the scuttlebutt being that the price on the 5.45 will be going up with the next batches coming out of the east led me to give up on the idea. The one benefit 5.45 has in my estimation is price, and if that goes away, what's the point?

I always figured that if I had to shoot all my ammo stash that I would hope there would be some freebies dropped and laying around when the smoke settles.

Yeah, that plan rates right up there with voting for Ross Perot to spite Dole.

Another plus is the 5.45 is just fun to shoot!

well i have a vector, but its a x39 .
I shoot any and all ammo i can find for it ( no isuses) and mags..well as long as they are new or used steel surplus i use them again. With out issue.
I bought a bunch of ammo before it crested the 150$ mark per 1k. and mags still sit around that 8-12$ mark. Got a bunch as well.

I dont really go for the " will it be available shtf..." as with the amounts i have ..if i ever go through it ..im in trouble LOL.

Now...that doesnt mean 15 years from now...from a non shtf shooting outlook we wont have issues. with supply.
I recall pass up deals on cases of SA and port 762x51 cuz it was 170$..and now....good luck finding it ..same with 792.......
thats why when its cheap you buy it.

It seems the AK74 isn't that bad of an option for a SHTF rifle. You get AK reliability, lite weight ammo that performs well on soft targets and you can buy lots of ammo cheap. As for the mags it seems as though you can still find mags for less than 20 bucks each. That sounds good to me because I have never seen an AK mag go bad,. So the mags you buy today should still be chugging along 20 years from now. I don't see the ammo thing as that big of an issue because if the SHTF there won't be any ammo left anywhere and with all the 223 rifles out there that will be the first calibure to dry up.

My folding stock AKs fit nicely in my gym bag even with a 20 round mag loaded. For concealment purposes you may want a folding stock AK74 and something like a tennis racket bag or gym bag. If you go with an optic on your rifle then I just don't see a down side to the AK74.

I've had a 5.45 AK since 1997 or so. I like the caliber and you really can't beat the cost of ammo right now. I bought mags back when they were >$20 for 4 so I am all set there but even at today's mag prices I think the rifle isn't a bad choice. I wouldn't worry about IFs, just stock up now while availability is good. Just be sure to away a couple spam cans of ammo while it is still cheap.

[edit] I just noticed you are in NY- East German mags would be easy to prove preban should the need arise.

If you can afford to stock the ammo deep, do so. It's just another option.

Right, and when you get shot up, just seek cover or find a glowing health pack and you'll be fine in no time!

Come back to reality, friend.

AKs are reliable, minute of human accurate, 5.45 is accurate & light but not a common round . For the typical SHTF if you have enough ammo it is fine, but if you have to bug out and can not take all your ammo with you, I would say there are better choices.

I keep ARs in 5.56 for the typical SHTFs and AKs in 7.62x39 for TEOTWAWKI if you want to go that far. 7.62x39 rounds are heavy but Hornady 123gr. Vmax exhibits performance similar to 308 Hornady 110gr. urban but doesn't shoot as flat and that's good enough for me if was taking one rifle/ammo type.

7.62x39 123 gr. V-MAX™




308 WIN 110 gr. TAP URBAN

edit for ak lovers

Btt

Buy one and five or six cases of ammo.

Train with 3 cases of the ammo and you've still got plenty of ammo for SHTF.

I mean, how many rounds do you anticipate shooting in times of trouble?

I have not found that to be the case.. my saiga 7.62 needed work to accept surplus mags, but the 5.45 will take surplus mags right out of the box.. (my 5.45 mags cost me about $10 a piece when I got them a few years ago, not expensive IMO) the one area where you may need to work on with either saiga is that some of them need a bullet guide to feed 30 round mags well, some of them do not and there's no rhyme or reason to it..

It's because they're made by drunk Russians. Saiga 12 shotguns exhibit this too. 1, 2, 3, or 4 gas vents or inconsistent size; gas blocks installed over the gas vents; etc.

When they work, they work. My Saiga 12 was fine from the git-go, others, not so much.

I have a couple 5.45 AKs, a couple 5.45 ARs I built, and 15K rounds for them.

Now I stockpile 5.56 and retain 5.56 rifles as my go to guns, but mainly shoot the 5.45s every weekend.


5.56 is much more available and easily found, but 5.45 is a great training substitute. I can let my kids shoot 600-700 rounds in a single outing through them all and not bat an eyelash. I have almost completed two identical clones in both calibers, one 16" and one SBR.


SHTF I will be grabbing for my 5.56 rifles though.

My 5.45 builds




One of the 5.45 AKs

You can always get a AR mag adaptor for it. http://texasakdesigns.com/products-page/ak-rifle/ I think there is a couple different manufactures out there too.

What's not to like about 5.45? It's cheap, and ballistically comparable to 5.56 FMJ. It penetrates very well and has light recoil. Yes, it is corrosive, but it's 2012...are we still acting like corrosive ammo is the kiss of death? Our enemies in Africa and the Middle East have been shooting corrosive ammo through their AK's for decades, and while some of those rifles don't look very pretty, they still operate. So with a bit of common sense and better maintenance, it stands to reason that your rifle should be even better off.

I've got 2 5.45 AK's and love them both. No, they are not as accurate as my AR's, but they are certainly accurate enough for defense at realistic ranges.

In terms of shortages during an event.... 5.56/.223 was extremely difficult to find in my area in the months after the 2008 election. Just a simple election..not zombies, no Russians....just an election. If there ever were wide scale riots, EMP's, zombies, or WHATEVER, how much more unlikely will you be able find ammo and mags? If you think you're going to gun it to Walmart as soon as Fox News says all hell is breaking loose, you're already screwed. Disavow yourself of the notion that you're going to be getting ammo or mags from police or military. We're not going to be giving it out, and we'd definitely strip fallen comrades of anything of value.

I'm not a huge AK nut, but I regret selling my SAR-2, 32 $4 mags, and three cases of ammo. Dunno WTF I was thinking at the time.

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