LARGE RUCKS for Heavy Loads

I have a few different 3 day packs and my SDS can hold 50 plus well but at 70+ it was a fail.

I need a large ruck, that can hold 70+ pds comfortably. I am doing an event that is over 60 miles with minimium pack weight of 60 pds (w/o food water etc).

I was thinking a new/ Mil issue CFP-90 cfp-90

I also found this Kelty Kelty Tactical

We are going from harper's ferry to Arlington Cemetary Section 60 to raise money for SOWF. Any assistance is appreciated!

Both of those will carry 60lbs, neither will be all that great. The Kelty you posted is HUGE, freaking HUGE, and makes poor use of the space. The quality is on par with their civilian packs, ie middle of the road. Cheap zips, non standard SR buckles.

The CFP is a pretty good sized pack also, better sleeping bag compartment, but the problem with the CFP is there were so many cheap knockoff's made and even the genuine ones had yokes that are prone to failure. CFP will be compatible with ALICE pockets or MOLLE if malice clips are used.

Think about getting a good civilian pack from Osprey, Gregory, or Arcteryx. While not cheap, those will all be very comfy options, and will cost less than a large tactical ruck from Kifaru or Mystery Ranch. It really boils down to the weather, how big is your sleeping bag when compressed, and how bulky is your shelter. For winter camping my Wiggy's bag (which I love) pretty much necessitates a ruck with a BIG sleeping bag compartment, hence my winter ruck is a Kifaru MMR. There are a couple of big Osprey packs I want but I doubt my bag would fit in them very well, so make sure you keep that in mind.

Complete 3 color desert MOLLE II packs are dirt cheap right now also, they are decently comfortable compared to the CFP and Kelty, have a ton of room, and are virtually indestructible (tan gen 4 frames).

Avoid the CFP90 like the plague, the socket joint in your lower back is horrible. A large ALICE will easily carry 70lb - I've had mine over 100lb according to the bathroom scale - but it may not be the most comfortable because of how far to the rear it extends your center of gravity. There are better frames available than the ALICE, though, I think Tactical Tailor still sells them. Get a set of their Super Straps and a Super Belt, too. The Super Straps have no quick release, but are much more comfortable due to thicker padding and their curved shape.

I have a complete MOLLE Gen 4 that seems to be much better comfort-wise, but I haven't given it a really good workout yet. The earlier generations of the main pack had a separate sleep system carrier, Gen 4 has the carrier integrated into the pack as a separate compartment at the bottom that can be accessed from outside and inside. It allows you to spread the load vertically to keep it closer to your CG. The load lifter straps are nice for giving your lower back a break or for adjusting where the weight rests in hilly terrain.

I think in most cases a civilian mountaineering-type pack is going to be more comfortable than a USGI one for the same load, but I've never seen a civilian pack that's anywhere near as rugged. Then again, I'm a cheap bastard who apparently considers anything that won't last as long as and take the abuse that his 24-year-old $75 large ALICE from the Clothing Sales Store has taken to be a piece of junk. LOL

Large ALICE Pack.

Have you considered a USMC ILBE pack? I love mine for heavy, long backpack trips. The downside, I'm told is that its uncomfortable when wearing body armor. I don't really wear that too much....

I have a real cpf-90 and used it for a week hiking here, it weighed 45-50# packed with one of these attached. I only needed to carry 1 liter of water because I was next to Lake Superior and used a water filter but the pack was fine. I don't see how you could fit 70# of gear in it though or why you would need that much. The last day a thunderstorm with hail and snow came in and I ran about eight miles with that pack without a problem. Add to that mosquitoes, hey thats Michigan.

Thanks all... I am doing an event called a Ruck to Remember. They have three weight classes: mandatory gear, 60+ mandatory gear and 130 pds + mandatory gear. I am doing the 60pds + and its over 60 miles from Harper's Ferry West Virginia to Arlington National Cemetery. Hence the comfort level with extra heavy weight.

I will check out the ILBE as well. Large Ruck I have used many times and I know there is better, but looking at Tactical Tailor as well for add ons.

The ILBE is based on the Arc'teryx Bora series (80 or 90 i believe). I have a Bora 80 and it is a phenomenal pack. Comfy (at regular loads, not insane 70+ loads), stable, and room enough for too much gear.

I don't think you will find a pack that will carry 70+ lbs and still allow you to use the word "comfortably". When you push a pack past its limits you're just hoping you don't have a gear/fabric failure.
External frames allow the addition of lots o'gear via straps, add-on pouches, and open real estate. The aforementioned Kelty makes some good external frame packs.

Kifaru EMS. Easily will carry the weight you described in comfort. It is expensive but worth every penny.

In a mil pattern either Kifaru (the EMR would def get you where you need to be, the MMR should as well) or Mystery Ranch, in a civ pattern look at Gregory Denali series.

I have the largest osprey, best pack Ive ever worn, and can carry a metric butt load.

I have the Osprey Argon 70 and I concur that it comfortably hauls a "metric buttload." Get the green one and Osprey's HydraForm water bladder. I went with a XL pack, and a large waist belt. My family all went with two sizes smaller from their packs on the waste belt. No need to do the heat moulding for fitting the belt, just wear it.

There are no "new" CFP-90 packs. A lot of copies, and some milsurp available. I don't normally suggest the surplus CFP-90 for various reasons, but it is a good pack. There are some issues with the pack that most prospective buyers will be unwilling/unable to deal with, but once those issues are overcome, the CFP-90 is a very good pack.

There are a number of respected members here who are strong on the Kelty military line of packs. I do not own one, nor have I examined one, but folks whom I trust think highly of them.

I would say that my LG ALICE pack + frame, with MOLLE shoulder straps and MOLLE waistbelt Mods suggested by Enforcer (see ALICE Gear thread in Tactical Gear Forum––Page 7 or so) might do you all right, and save you a TON of money.

Lotsa folks with money to burn hereabouts. Just sayin'.

Military bucket style packs are the way to go but the (cfp 90 will fail at 70 plus), I had one used from army 80 lbs the the shoulder strap yolk adjusting track ripped off the pack. Gave it to a friend of mine he removed all straps and hardware, and made me a monster mountain ruck out fo 1000 D cordura multicam, 3 packs in one over 8000 cubic inch with the small and medium packs attached it's around 10,000 cub. It is awsome can carry up to 200 lbs if needed and compresses down to size of a ILBE. It fits 4- 24 packs of bottles with room to spare if needed. It's better to be to big than to small just pack what is needed.

Osprey is a great choice I do recomend it!

Have one love it. my only comlpait is it only holds my artic bag and jacket have to put chow in the assualt pack witch is how I roll anyway. I was disappointed in the cargo area expected more.

I have a civilian model Kelty that is almost identical to the one you posted and it hasn't failed me in the past 15 years.

LOL avoid it like the plague shoulder straps ripped off with 80 lbs.

Eberlestock

I've humped the GREEN TICK with that much(more really) , but honestly cant recommend it. but you wont break it.

Unless you need it to be a .mil style pack, I would SERIOUSLY look at the commercial back packer market. A mountianeering pack will be a hell of a lot better to carry than an Alice Pack. Not cheaper, but a much better carry.

my Kifaru MMR will do that weight easily.....as will the EMR.

alice pack will do it, but it will be a suckfest.

I did a side by side comparison between my Kifaru EMR and an HSGI modified (Ali pads) Large Alice pack…both hauling just over 100 pounds. The Large (modified) Alice is built to take it, but is very painful if you’re doing any significant distance. The EMR is a beast in its own right, but hauling 100+ pounds is actually more comfortable than 60 pounds in an Alice pack. If you want heavy loads, don’t skimp; Kifaru, Mystery Ranch, Arc’Teryx…those all have performed well for me. Civilian bags like Osprey (which is my preference for backpacking) are good, but I really don’t know how they would handle the abuse of that heavy of a load over time.

ROCK6

The ALIPAD woeks in conjunction with Standard (or aftermarket) shoulderstraps that attach as per OEM shoulderstraps, and the standard kidney pad.
No doubt it is a considerable improvement over the original ALICE set-up, and particularly so with much better aftermarket shoulderstraps.

That said, the ALIPAD does nothing to shift weight from shoulders to the waist. You are improving the ALICE, but not making any fundamental changes to an outdated system. Moreover, the ALIPAD has zero adjustments for user torso length; but neither did the original ALICE rig, either.

Contrast the ALIPAD with Enforcer's "Hellcat" mods using MOLLE waistbelt, shoulderstraps, and Mod. Sleep. System Carrier. The MOLLE waistbelt takes a great deal of the weight off the user's shoulders, and transfers it to the user's waist, where it is much easier to deal with. The MOLLE shoulderstraps can be adjusted for user torso length. The MOLLE MSS carrier allows extra bag capacity and easy access to sleeping bag w/o dumping out contents of main pack.

Seriously, the MOLLE/ALICE "Hellcat" mods are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the ALIPAD, and that is no knock on HSGI, who makes good gear.

Or you can get the Down East 1606AC frame and replace the ALICE suspension completely.

Yup, that's even better. Folks with an existing ALICE frame can do it in stages.

Yeah, those are much better, but my modifed HSGI ruck is now limited to hauling a ton of gear from the porch to the truck; that Ali addition was pre-Kifaru and Gene did it about 10-12 years ago. There is just no comparison with the Kifaru EMR. I will say HSGI's modification makes a monster out of the Large Alice...I can carry enough crap for months in the field. I thought I had a modified waist belt, but can't confirm right now; that would be a good addition as you're absolutely correct about needing to put that weight on the hips.

v/r
ROCK6

Where did you find one of those in that good condition? Issued to you right from the supply room?

Could have been surplussed unissued out of GTW stocks.

I'm gonna parrot Raf here. I did my spur ride with Enforcers suspension mod on a large alice with 60 lbs. End of the 2 days I was the only one not nursing wounds inflicted by their packs.

My troop has just about stripped the surplus stores around Ft Lewis bare of Molle II Load lifters and waist pads. It is comfortable, holds loads of shit and you can ruck ALL DAY without pain. Just make sure to get the torso length right.

Has anyone used the Down East frame in conjunction with the Molle Strap's and Pads and / or would the Molle gear work just as good on the Alice frame as on the Down East frame?

Get a Tactical Tailor MALICE Pack with the Super Straps and Super Belt. Take the time to look it up and read about it. This thing is a glorified ALICE pack. I speak from experience

The Down East frames were initially designed to accept the MOLLE shoulderstraps and waistbelt, so mating them up is no problem at all. Just follow standard GI MOLLE instructions for attaching same. Follow Enforcer's tutorial for attaching the same MOLLE components to the ALICE frame. The DE AIRBORNE frame is probably a little bit lighter than the ALICE frame. OTOH, the ALICE frame has an attachable metal cargo shelf for carrying items like metal ammo cans and metal fuel cans which the DE frame lacks. Depends on one's needs and personal preferences. Either frame makes for a perfectly viable pack system, but they are subtly different. NOTE: The first two generations of plastic frames for MOLLE packs were deficient in a number of ways. The latest generation of MOLLE frame seems to have solved these problems. The latest generation of MOLLE frame is pictured on the DE site, so copy the image and compare it to any prospective purchase. If the frame plastic is any color other than black, it is probably the latest generation of frame.

AFAIK, only the DE AIRBORNE frame will accept an ALICE pack as well as the originally-intended MOLLE pack; the standard DE frame is intended for use with the MOLLE system pack, although the ALICE pack can probably be adapted to it.

If you have just an ALICE pack, then get either the DE AIRBORNE or ALICE frame, and the MOLLE shouldersstraps, waist belt, and MSS carrier.

If you have an ALICE pack and frame, then get the MOLLE shoulderstraps, waistbelt, and MSS carrier. Unless you have a highly tricked-out ALICE pack, such as the ones modified by Tactical Tailor, IMHO the MOLLE packs are generally a bit better than the ALICE for most users.

So, if you have nothing at all, then most users would be better off getting a good condition surplus MOLLE pack and frame. There are better packs out there, but lots worse also. This will get you started, inexpensively, with something decent-to-good, and you will at least have something to experiment and train with while you are saving up several hundred dollars for that top-tier pack.

raf appreciate you taking the time to answer for me.

I've been looking for a large ruck for a while and almost bought a Kelty, but after reading up on them but evidently they don't stand up to time very well.

I wanted a pack that I knew would hold up but not cause me to take out a second mortgage to pay for it plus get kicked out to the dog house by the wife.

I knew the Alice so that's what I was going to get for my son and myself. Then I found a Blackhawk SOF Ruck on Ebay, read up on it, bid, and got it at a really good price and it came with the Blackhawk shoulder straps and waist pad.
The shoulder straps look and feel good the waist pad is really nothing special though it is better then the issue Alice pad.

A week or two later I was able to get another Blackhawk SOF Ruck on Ebay for my son, his has the Alice issue straps and pad.

I figure that with the Down East frame and following Enforcers mods this should make for a fairly comfortable ruck.

I carried the Alice as a Grunt in the 80's and I never thought it was all that uncomfortable, for me it was the shoulder straps that really sucked.

Thanks everyone!

I ended up buying an Eberlestock Warhammer (found a great dealer btw). I have to say I LOVE this pack! It is so freaking versatile that it will make your head spin. My ruck weighed in at 103 pds with consumables and it was the bomb. You have to take the time to fit it and move the yokes and hip straps (down side..thing comes with no instructions or manual) but if you know Alice it will come back. That being said, I wore it for 14 hrs, rucking, low crawling and in and out of water. Loved it. I attached two old m16 mag pouches on the hip belt for compass, comms and food. Also a great place to put your elbows as you just keep going.

I made my own 3/4 webbing straps to control the weight horizontally and keeping it high on my back. I bout the GR1 little buddy but did not use it this trip but with the zip in duffle and GR1 can both me used on the same ruck, you have 8000 cubic in of space. Thing is unreal. The side pouches/pillows fit a 10l dry bag nicely.

Great ruck, next adventure is a 60 mile ruck off for Memorial Day. I can post pics latter.

I don't know if you need this or not, but here's some instructions on how to fit and adjust most modern packs: http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/backpacks+adjusting+fit.html

I have the down east alice frame with straps and a BDS moutain ruck. I love it. BTW botach has a Kelty pack (smaller than the link you posted op) for 110.00.

Thanks Raf, I am good but will pass on to others who can use it! Again loved this pack...

Speaking of the Down East stuff, does anyone have experience with their packs? Specifically the son of ALICE pack. Looks like a TT style pack but I like some of the internal pockets and other features. Now I'm torn between that and an Eberlstock model of comparable size. Maybe you all can help me decide.

I love the warhammer for its versatility especially with awkward loads. The dealer I used had the same pricing as most BUT he ships free and tosses in an item. I recommend a larg spiked duffle because it zips out and adds an ass load of space. I use the Little Buddy, which zips into the warhammer. Carry your shit to base camp, drop the warhammer, unzip lil brother and you have a 3 day backplus raring to go to your favorite hide.

103 pds carried for 14 hrs...amazing. Drawbacks, no dedicated hydration storage, alice frame keeps the head from looking up in a low crawl position. It can carry really awkwards weights/items and do it well. Heavy loads are a fucking win with this. Also the hip belt I used old m16 mag carriers to carry food, compass and quick to get to items and did great, fits 4.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/surgassist/4b4b0ebc.jpg

I made my own straps using kevlar suture and gorilla glue. Eberlestock has several bags that zip either directly against the molle straps or another set of zippers on the outer area so you can hold say a log betweent he two.

No one has mentioned it so far so I will. Take a look at a MOLLE II pack. (They used to be 54 dollars)

http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/01001.html?id=d2au95cn

I have 4 alice packs (one converted to a hellcat, and 2 that are very old) and two of these (one is a variant), and I give them all a go on treadmill. When it comes to 80lbs in it, this one is my favorite. If I was shorter, I might like the alice packs a little more, though I don't hate them.

I haven't tried some of the commercial packs that have been mentioned because the material looks like it would rip in heavy brush to thick trees.

The eberlestock material is good to guy. Dragged thru rocks and mud, numerous rucksack flops and other abuse. Even had to toss it in the river, retrieve it and wear it. I found a good dealer and his pricing is industry average but he throws in extra items with each order and free shipping.

+1

Yeah, I think I found the same dealer...my "free" item was free shipping to Afghanistan but still good to go. I'm going to try the Gunslinger G2 here, but will have the Operator awaiting me at home. Great pics BTW! Looks like a heck of a competition!

ROCK6

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