Archived Posts » 59,646,491
Everything is so tight
6/8/2012 5:47:29 PM
Hey, PSA. I do not want the following to be taken as a complaint, but I just wanted to let you guys know that perhaps it might be good to tone things down a little with the upper receiver assemblies. I was attempting to remove the barrel nut from my midlength upper to install a free float handguard, but in the process ended up breaking my upper receiver. The block which I had it attached to is useless as well now, from the damage it suffered. Geez, guys, I had a breaker bar attached to my Tapco wrench and the upper receiver failed before the barrel nut did. 
I gotta say, that is a VERY expensive barrel that I am left with. 
I know what you are thinking, I have the tools, I should have just bought the parts separately, I could have saved a lot of money. Well, I learned the hard way I suppose, and that is life.
Goodness though, save your workouts for the gym.
I gotta say, that is a VERY expensive barrel that I am left with.
I know what you are thinking, I have the tools, I should have just bought the parts separately, I could have saved a lot of money. Well, I learned the hard way I suppose, and that is life.
Goodness though, save your workouts for the gym.
6/8/2012 5:58:14 PM
Wow
Opps
Aint gonna do that again...
(lefty losey, correct?)
6/8/2012 6:49:36 PM
Originally Posted By ar154all:
Wow
Wow
Opps
Aint gonna do that again...
(lefty losey, correct?)
Yeah, that is the very last time a buy something like this. For now on, I am doing strictly custom builds. I wasted a lot of money on this upper, and I absolutely hate wasting money.
Otherwise, yes, lefty loosey.
6/9/2012 9:54:27 AM
used a clamshell right?
6/9/2012 10:03:57 AM
Originally Posted By Alexville:
used a clamshell right?
used a clamshell right?
No, the standard block, but the upper receiver cracked at the neck where the barrel is inserted, so I have my doubts I would have been any better off.
6/9/2012 10:39:26 AM
Originally Posted By pianobomber:
No, the standard block, but the upper receiver cracked at the neck where the barrel is inserted, so I have my doubts I would have been any better off.
Originally Posted By Alexville:
used a clamshell right?
used a clamshell right?
No, the standard block, but the upper receiver cracked at the neck where the barrel is inserted, so I have my doubts I would have been any better off.
This bodes poorly for my plans for the M4 "madness" upper I ordered. Is this really a common problem?
6/9/2012 11:32:23 AM
Hey OP, find a skilled local smith with a full shop. You'd be surprised what they can do. If you lived anywhere near CO I know exactly who could get you fixed up.
Buy a new upper receiver and a nut and you'll only have a $130 lesson.
Buy a new upper receiver and a nut and you'll only have a $130 lesson.
6/9/2012 12:12:41 PM
Originally Posted By steveodell59:
This bodes poorly for my plans for the M4 "madness" upper I ordered. Is this really a common problem?
Originally Posted By pianobomber:
No, the standard block, but the upper receiver cracked at the neck where the barrel is inserted, so I have my doubts I would have been any better off.
Originally Posted By Alexville:
used a clamshell right?
used a clamshell right?
No, the standard block, but the upper receiver cracked at the neck where the barrel is inserted, so I have my doubts I would have been any better off.
This bodes poorly for my plans for the M4 "madness" upper I ordered. Is this really a common problem?
One thing is certain from reading other people's experiences on the net, this problem is common among various manufacturers. My incredible situation may very well be a localized event. PSA makes products of the highest quality, but it seems they are building their products with the intent of not giving the end user the ability to modify it without serious equipment or a qualified gunsmith. Who knows. Personally, had I not had the intention of modifying my rifle, I would purchase a PSA all over again, but I will never purchase a pre-built unit ever again. Honestly, who wants to pay $400 for a barrel? In any event, PSA is a good deal right now, so do not let my situation scare you off, just exercise caution, because going to another manufacturer may be of little help as well.
Hey OP, find a skilled local smith with a full shop. You'd be surprised what they can do. If you lived anywhere near CO I know exactly who could get you fixed up.
Buy a new upper receiver and a nut and you'll only have a $130 lesson.
Buy a new upper receiver and a nut and you'll only have a $130 lesson.
Dang, I kinda wish I lived closer.
6/9/2012 12:30:01 PM
you could always go FF by cutting rings and retainers off with a dremel and not having to remove the barrel and such.
bummer you broke it
bummer you broke it
6/9/2012 12:30:03 PM
actually their upper recievers (unmarked) are in stock right now for 69.95 iirc.
so it'd be a 75 bux lesson.
so it'd be a 75 bux lesson.
6/9/2012 12:39:46 PM
Originally Posted By theboz118:
you could always go FF by cutting rings and retainers off with a dremel and not having to remove the barrel and such.
bummer you broke it
you could always go FF by cutting rings and retainers off with a dremel and not having to remove the barrel and such.
bummer you broke it
What is absolutely hilarious about this was that I knew of high quality free float rails that did not require disassembly of the upper, but they cost quite a bit more than a UTG Pro. Funny that I was attempting to save money and I am now finding that I must pay more. Although, the more I think about it, the more I see it might have evened out. I could have spent three times more on a free float rail, or just broke the upper unit and get a cheaper UTG Pro.
Either way, I hope for everyone's sake, they understand that purchasing tools, such as a Tapco wrench, and other necessities, is less of a headache than buying an assembled unit, unless you have no intention of modifying it.6/9/2012 1:20:52 PM
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
6/9/2012 1:42:52 PM
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
6/9/2012 1:54:49 PM
Look, I don't care if you used a 6 foot breaker bar. When you use the wrong type of reciever block it puts things at different angles and creates new shear points. Unless it is properly blocked you may not get the required torque on the barrel nut if it is close to spec.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Originally Posted By pianobomber:
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
6/9/2012 2:00:21 PM
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Look, I don't care if you used a 6 foot breaker bar. When you use the wrong type of reciever block it puts things at different angles and creates new shear points. Unless it is properly blocked you may not get the required torque on the barrel nut if it is close to spec.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Look, I don't care if you used a 6 foot breaker bar. When you use the wrong type of reciever block it puts things at different angles and creates new shear points. Unless it is properly blocked you may not get the required torque on the barrel nut if it is close to spec.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Originally Posted By pianobomber:
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
You are not being logical again. Let us imagine that I did use a six foot breaker bar in the same instance and found that I was exerting similar force, and the receiver cracked at the neck. That would again mean that it was very tight. Maybe I am wrong, but I really do not see how that is difficult to understand.
6/9/2012 2:04:31 PM
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Look, I don't care if you used a 6 foot breaker bar. When you use the wrong type of reciever block it puts things at different angles and creates new shear points. Unless it is properly blocked you may not get the required torque on the barrel nut if it is close to spec.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Look, I don't care if you used a 6 foot breaker bar. When you use the wrong type of reciever block it puts things at different angles and creates new shear points. Unless it is properly blocked you may not get the required torque on the barrel nut if it is close to spec.
Stop blaming it on tightness and sit down and think that you used the wrong tools and just move on.
Originally Posted By pianobomber:
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Would you prefer them not tighten it enough and have it come apart while you're shooting at the range or a self-defense situation? Kabooms can be quite painful and I'm sure there would be a much larger backlash if something like that happened versus a customer having trouble taking a preassembled firearm apart with the wrong types of clamps. Clamshell blocks are made for removing barrel nuts. The type you used does not properly support the receiver and can and most likely will result in damage. I would not put this on them, but as a $80 lesson that you can learn from.
Please, I beg of you, let us keep the discussion logical. First, you committed a fallacy by asking me if I would have preferred they "not tighten it enough". Properly, I would have preferred that they neither have over tightened or under tightened, but rather kept everything within specification. I was using a Tapco wrench and a two and a half foot long breaker bar putting a significant amount of torque on the upper receiver. How in the world could such a thing be so tight in the first place, with no sign of loctite used? Furthermore, I have already explained that the upper receiver cracked at the neck, so I am not entirely convinced that a clamshell block would have helped, since as far as I can tell it merely insures that the neck will receive the blunt of the torque anyways. We will never know at this point though. Lastly, no one is putting any sort of blame on Palmetto State Armory. I have made it clear that I had the intention of modifying my rifle, so the risk I take is my own. This thread exists merely for the benefit of others to warn them of the difficulties they may face if they purchase a pre-built unit from PSA OR anyone else. Aslo, I created this thread as a suggestion to PSA in hopes that they will be just a little bit more careful in the future. I do not want to see other people needlessly suffer the headaches that I did.
I have to just comment in the receiver block thing. I was just researching the DPMS Claw receiver block because my dad's fixing to get one for a .308 he just bought. The overwhelming majority of the feedback I found in searching was positive. As a matter of fact, a pretty good chunk of people tended to prefer the claw type block over a clamshell type because it less likely to mar he receiver. I understand the reasoning behind the clamshell - it's actually what I use. But from what I've been reading, the notion that a claw type block puts significant additional stresses on the receiver seems to get a bit overblown.
ETA: No comment on the OP's issue(s)...
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
6/9/2012 2:07:45 PM
Originally Posted By Bulldawg:
I have to just comment in the receiver block thing. I was just researching the DPMS Claw receiver block because my dad's fixing to get one for a .308 he just bought. The overwhelming majority of the feedback I found in searching was positive. As a matter of fact, a pretty good chunk of people tended to prefer the claw type block over a clamshell type because it less likely to mar he receiver. I understand the reasoning behind the clamshell - it's actually what I use. But from what I've been reading, the notion that a claw type block puts significant additional stresses on the receiver seems to get a bit overblown.
ETA: No comment on the OP's issue(s)...
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
I have to just comment in the receiver block thing. I was just researching the DPMS Claw receiver block because my dad's fixing to get one for a .308 he just bought. The overwhelming majority of the feedback I found in searching was positive. As a matter of fact, a pretty good chunk of people tended to prefer the claw type block over a clamshell type because it less likely to mar he receiver. I understand the reasoning behind the clamshell - it's actually what I use. But from what I've been reading, the notion that a claw type block puts significant additional stresses on the receiver seems to get a bit overblown.
ETA: No comment on the OP's issue(s)...
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Very interesting indeed.
6/9/2012 2:20:59 PM
Cut out the "logical" crap. By using the block that you did it allowed more flex in the reciever. The flex can bind threads and create an instance that would crack a receiver. Think of it as torquing a bolt from straight on vs. it being at a slight angle that makes it so that one side of its threads are being pushed against the material it is threaded into. This makes it harder to move and can cause breakage.
All I'm saying is that the wrong tools can make an easy task into a difficult one. Such as adjusting the front sight post elevation where you bought a cheap tool that did not work properly:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/575998_A2_Front_Sight_Tool_That_Actually_Works.html
You've already posted in another thread about this and using the improper tools. Others such as Eric10mm have tried to help you understand that the proper vice block can help but you just keep getting defensive about it.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/575833_FSB_Pins_Impossibly_Stubborn.html&page=2
All I'm saying is that the wrong tools can make an easy task into a difficult one. Such as adjusting the front sight post elevation where you bought a cheap tool that did not work properly:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/575998_A2_Front_Sight_Tool_That_Actually_Works.html
You've already posted in another thread about this and using the improper tools. Others such as Eric10mm have tried to help you understand that the proper vice block can help but you just keep getting defensive about it.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/575833_FSB_Pins_Impossibly_Stubborn.html&page=2
6/9/2012 2:38:21 PM
So did you order a new receiver for $69.95 yet?
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/upper-receivers-1/stripped-unmarked-upper-receiver.html
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/upper-receivers-1/stripped-unmarked-upper-receiver.html
6/9/2012 3:25:44 PM
Originally Posted By drothgeb:
Cut out the "logical" crap. By using the block that you did it allowed more flex in the reciever. The flex can bind threads and create an instance that would crack a receiver. Think of it as torquing a bolt from straight on vs. it being at a slight angle that makes it so that one side of its threads are being pushed against the material it is threaded into. This makes it harder to move and can cause breakage.
All I'm saying is that the wrong tools can make an easy task into a difficult one. Such as adjusting the front sight post elevation where you bought a cheap tool that did not work properly:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/575998_A2_Front_Sight_Tool_That_Actually_Works.html
You've already posted in another thread about this and using the improper tools. Others such as Eric10mm have tried to help you understand that the proper vice block can help but you just keep getting defensive about it.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/575833_FSB_Pins_Impossibly_Stubborn.html&page=2
Cut out the "logical" crap. By using the block that you did it allowed more flex in the reciever. The flex can bind threads and create an instance that would crack a receiver. Think of it as torquing a bolt from straight on vs. it being at a slight angle that makes it so that one side of its threads are being pushed against the material it is threaded into. This makes it harder to move and can cause breakage.
All I'm saying is that the wrong tools can make an easy task into a difficult one. Such as adjusting the front sight post elevation where you bought a cheap tool that did not work properly:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/575998_A2_Front_Sight_Tool_That_Actually_Works.html
You've already posted in another thread about this and using the improper tools. Others such as Eric10mm have tried to help you understand that the proper vice block can help but you just keep getting defensive about it.
http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_3_12/575833_FSB_Pins_Impossibly_Stubborn.html&page=2
Hahahaha. Wow... The upper receiver cracked at the neck. I am done explaining this.
Thanks, UncleGAK, I did order an upper receiver, but I got one from elsewhere.
6/9/2012 5:25:54 PM
Thank you for sharing your story, and for your suggestions.
Our barrel nuts are installed within spec. Please take care dissembling uppers and contact us or a qualified gunsmith if it seems too much force is required..
Our barrel nuts are installed within spec. Please take care dissembling uppers and contact us or a qualified gunsmith if it seems too much force is required..
6/9/2012 5:29:31 PM
Thread done
