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Alpha Rail 13.8" installation question
9/13/2011 2:21:39 PM
I'm looking at building a new upper. I found the one I want, but the company doesn't offer it with the Alpha Rail.
Is this something I can install myself, or do I need proprietary tools and an engineering degree? I've all but talked myself out of a KAC URXII for that reason.
Also, what height does the gas block need to be for this rail?
Thanks!
Is this something I can install myself, or do I need proprietary tools and an engineering degree? I've all but talked myself out of a KAC URXII for that reason.
Also, what height does the gas block need to be for this rail?
Thanks!
9/13/2011 4:50:36 PM
We do sell our TRX Extreme .308 rail which is very similar to the Alpha but with different locking mechanism. The installation should be completed by a qualified gunsmith. Depending on which rifle you are installing this on depends on the complexity. LR-308 free float rails require a special tool to remove the built in rail. AR10 systems are more like the standard ar15 installation.
In general you need to remove the existing barrel nut, fixed sight or railed gas block, muzzle device, gas tube and delta ring and spring if present. Depending on size of the rail, you may need to replace your fixed front sight with a Low-Profile gas black. This can be a tricky process if you do not have the proper tools. If you are familiar with working on AR15 rifles it is almost identical.
Hope that helps. We do post installation manuals in the tech portion of our website.
Thanks!
In general you need to remove the existing barrel nut, fixed sight or railed gas block, muzzle device, gas tube and delta ring and spring if present. Depending on size of the rail, you may need to replace your fixed front sight with a Low-Profile gas black. This can be a tricky process if you do not have the proper tools. If you are familiar with working on AR15 rifles it is almost identical.
Hope that helps. We do post installation manuals in the tech portion of our website.
Thanks!
9/13/2011 5:04:55 PM
Originally Posted By TroyIndustries:
We do sell our TRX Extreme .308 rail which is very similar to the Alpha but with different locking mechanism. The installation should be completed by a qualified gunsmith. Depending on which rifle you are installing this on depends on the complexity. LR-308 free float rails require a special tool to remove the built in rail. AR10 systems are more like the standard ar15 installation.
In general you need to remove the existing barrel nut, fixed sight or railed gas block, muzzle device, gas tube and delta ring and spring if present. Depending on size of the rail, you may need to replace your fixed front sight with a Low-Profile gas black. This can be a tricky process if you do not have the proper tools. If you are familiar with working on AR15 rifles it is almost identical.
Hope that helps. We do post installation manuals in the tech portion of our website.
Thanks!
We do sell our TRX Extreme .308 rail which is very similar to the Alpha but with different locking mechanism. The installation should be completed by a qualified gunsmith. Depending on which rifle you are installing this on depends on the complexity. LR-308 free float rails require a special tool to remove the built in rail. AR10 systems are more like the standard ar15 installation.
In general you need to remove the existing barrel nut, fixed sight or railed gas block, muzzle device, gas tube and delta ring and spring if present. Depending on size of the rail, you may need to replace your fixed front sight with a Low-Profile gas black. This can be a tricky process if you do not have the proper tools. If you are familiar with working on AR15 rifles it is almost identical.
Hope that helps. We do post installation manuals in the tech portion of our website.
Thanks!
Thanks for the response.
I am going to use a BCM 5.56 midlength upper with a pinned, chopped standard FSB. Will that be of appropriate height for the rail?
I have the proper tools and experience to remove the FSB, barrel and attendant parts, so as long as I don't need special tools for the Alpha, and it uses a standard barrel nut, I think I'm set.
Is there anything else I should know?
9/13/2011 11:29:43 PM
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
9/13/2011 11:53:35 PM
Originally Posted By Intermission:
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
Good to know! I am definitely interested in installing an Alpha rail on my 14.5" with perm attached flash hider. Sounds like it should work.
9/14/2011 12:37:20 AM
Originally Posted By Intermission:
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
Got a pic of it installed?
Nevermind, found it. Pretty badass.
9/14/2011 7:00:18 PM
Just in case someone else was wondering what it looked like. This is the 13" BTW
12/11/2011 12:48:43 PM
Originally Posted By Intermission:
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
I did the same. but the rail won't do that last lil twist to align the top rails. it seems I need it to slide rearward a 1/32 more to get into that groove.
how much force is needed to twist it into position ?
(BCM factory upper, dremeled off delta assembly and FSB)
12/11/2011 1:07:32 PM
Originally Posted By bankfraudguy:
I did the same. but the rail won't do that last lil twist to align the top rails. it seems I need it to slide rearward a 1/32 more to get into that groove.
how much force is needed to twist it into position ?
(BCM factory upper, dremeled off delta assembly and FSB)
Originally Posted By Intermission:
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
When I installed my alpha I didn't remove the barrel nut I just used a dremel with a cut-off wheel to cut the delta ring off and then pulled the springs off with some pliers.
I did the same. but the rail won't do that last lil twist to align the top rails. it seems I need it to slide rearward a 1/32 more to get into that groove.
how much force is needed to twist it into position ?
(BCM factory upper, dremeled off delta assembly and FSB)
Mine twisted freely though that little tab did not align the rail. Are you sure the clamp screws are loose enough?
Also I used some Super Blue to touch up the FSB, I took mine off, and it turned out looking pretty good.
12/11/2011 1:20:31 PM
I took the tab screws out and it still won't align. I have a trx extreme on another rifle that worked smoothly. I can of course put the upper in a block and a strap wrench on the rail and "send it home" but I have a feeling that is not how it's designed. if its supposed to fit with some friction then I'll go for it.
if I had to guess, Id say the rear of the rail was not machined down enough to allow it to slide onto the nut far enough to twist into the groove. again, I am talking less than a 1/16 here...
if I had to guess, Id say the rear of the rail was not machined down enough to allow it to slide onto the nut far enough to twist into the groove. again, I am talking less than a 1/16 here...
12/11/2011 1:35:36 PM
Originally Posted By bankfraudguy:
I took the tab screws out and it still won't align. I have a trx extreme on another rifle that worked smoothly. I can of course put the upper in a block and a strap wrench on the rail and "send it home" but I have a feeling that is not how it's designed. if its supposed to fit with some friction then I'll go for it.
if I had to guess, Id say the rear of the rail was not machined down enough to allow it to slide onto the nut far enough to twist into the groove. again, I am talking less than a 1/16 here...
I took the tab screws out and it still won't align. I have a trx extreme on another rifle that worked smoothly. I can of course put the upper in a block and a strap wrench on the rail and "send it home" but I have a feeling that is not how it's designed. if its supposed to fit with some friction then I'll go for it.
if I had to guess, Id say the rear of the rail was not machined down enough to allow it to slide onto the nut far enough to twist into the groove. again, I am talking less than a 1/16 here...
hold that thought. I used an old motorcycle diagnostic trick where you assume you did something wrong before blaming the part and......
it looks like I could do a lil more grinding on the FSB. it is keeping the rail from fully twisting over while remaining straight. I'll take the FSB down some more and report back later tonight.
12/11/2011 9:22:23 PM
if you are using a clam shell type fixture to hold your upper you may have to remove just a little bit of material off the front of he fixture. that is where mine hung up i only had about a 32nd of an inch to go also.
12/11/2011 9:30:02 PM
Originally Posted By mrosbro:
if you are using a clam shell type fixture to hold your upper you may have to remove just a little bit of material off the front of he fixture. that is where mine hung up i only had about a 32nd of an inch to go also.
if you are using a clam shell type fixture to hold your upper you may have to remove just a little bit of material off the front of he fixture. that is where mine hung up i only had about a 32nd of an inch to go also.
it's a 13in on a 14.5 in barrel. the FSB still has too much material on it so the handguard rotates in back but gets hung up ever so slightly. this causes it to not be perfectly inline with the barrel. that causes the inner ring? to not fit right when it's time to twist.
more grinding on the FSB tomorrow will make things right.
12/12/2011 12:06:29 AM
isn't it fun to spend money on guns just to change them every chance we get? when we get it right we just build a new one.it is nice to have a company like TROY around to let us buy their products. good luck i hope it all works out for ya....post a pic or two when you are done,sounds like a sweet build.....dave
12/17/2011 8:45:03 PM
Originally Posted By bankfraudguy:
it's a 13in on a 14.5 in barrel. the FSB still has too much material on it so the handguard rotates in back but gets hung up ever so slightly. this causes it to not be perfectly inline with the barrel. that causes the inner ring? to not fit right when it's time to twist.
more grinding on the FSB tomorrow will make things right.
Originally Posted By mrosbro:
if you are using a clam shell type fixture to hold your upper you may have to remove just a little bit of material off the front of he fixture. that is where mine hung up i only had about a 32nd of an inch to go also.
if you are using a clam shell type fixture to hold your upper you may have to remove just a little bit of material off the front of he fixture. that is where mine hung up i only had about a 32nd of an inch to go also.
it's a 13in on a 14.5 in barrel. the FSB still has too much material on it so the handguard rotates in back but gets hung up ever so slightly. this causes it to not be perfectly inline with the barrel. that causes the inner ring? to not fit right when it's time to twist.
more grinding on the FSB tomorrow will make things right.
FSB is as small as it can go. the rail slides on and sits flush against the face of the receiver. but just not enough to clear the slot that the teeth of the barrel nut are supposed to rotate into. something ain't right.
it's a perm 14.5 'er that I should have left alone, but now I'm committed. I'm going to drive out the FSB pins and let it rotate to prove to myself that it's not the problem. after that, I guess Im going to have to send it in to Troy.
12/18/2011 12:47:14 PM
Here's the finished product! The grinding and assembly turned out to be easy and fairly quick.
BCM Midlength Upper
BattleComp muzzle brake (not pictured)
KAC SR-15 IWS lower
US Palm grip
Magpul RVG
Aimpoint CompM4
Troy BUIS (rear)
Digilight weaponlight in Viking mount
Blue Force Gear VCAS sling
BCM Midlength Upper
BattleComp muzzle brake (not pictured)
KAC SR-15 IWS lower
US Palm grip
Magpul RVG
Aimpoint CompM4
Troy BUIS (rear)
Digilight weaponlight in Viking mount
Blue Force Gear VCAS sling
12/23/2011 10:20:42 AM
Good job! It looks nice.
I just put a rail on mine and helped my neighbor with his. I used a set screw low profile gas block... Install took about 10min. He retained his pinned gas block and we shaved it down. You have to REALLY work on that FSB to get a lot of material off. Especially on a mid length gas with 13" alpha. The front sight folds right over the gas block.
Once it's on, though, it's worth it. They turned out really nice.
I just put a rail on mine and helped my neighbor with his. I used a set screw low profile gas block... Install took about 10min. He retained his pinned gas block and we shaved it down. You have to REALLY work on that FSB to get a lot of material off. Especially on a mid length gas with 13" alpha. The front sight folds right over the gas block.
Once it's on, though, it's worth it. They turned out really nice.
12/23/2011 12:39:19 PM
I just installed mine last night and it was pretty dang easy.
I used the Troy 2" long low profile gas block and it clears everything. Then again, my Alpha rail does not have the front folding sight. Not that it matters though, since I got the 13" rail for my middy, so even if I did have the built-in folding front sight, it would have cleared the gas block still.
I used the Troy 2" long low profile gas block and it clears everything. Then again, my Alpha rail does not have the front folding sight. Not that it matters though, since I got the 13" rail for my middy, so even if I did have the built-in folding front sight, it would have cleared the gas block still.
