old scope ; what's this model ?

hello

i saw that




i've never seen one like the left model

someone knows something about that ?

thanks

I'm not an expert, but I think that may be wrong. As far as I know, it's like this:

L to R: Early made in USA, then early made in Japan, later Japanese and even later Japanese:

I'm not sure the left one is legit at all. Notice the shape of the "3" is different than any of the others, and I've never seen a "Colt" that included "mm" after the "20".
Where'd that photo come from?

for sale part of the forum

I saw this EE ad the other day and questioned the sellers description. I have never seen the "mm" either and would say this one is quite possibly a fake.

An easy way to possibly tell would be to see whether the screws that hold on the mount are flathead or phillips. Flathead supposedly means that it's authentic.

I posted the ad for this scope. The screws that attach the mount to the body are flatheads not phillips. Just because one person cannot identify it does not make it a fake. I have owned several 3X20 scopes and if this one is a fake it is the best fake I have ever seen. It is identical in everyway except the reticule, the logo and it does not have the "Made in Japan? sticker. Instead the sticker at the bottom is an inspection sticker with "Passed" on it. Additionally, it came with a plain cardboard box, not the white box normally seen with 3 X 20 scopes.

If one of you retro guys has seen this particular variation, please reply and help identify its origin.

Tokyo Marui made an accurate Colt 3X20 scope
for the airsoft market a few years ago.

But I've never handled one, and I don't
remember how they were marked.

Don't take our observations too personally. I do believe everyone here qualified their opinions as opinions, not necessarily fact.
However, the collective membership here in retro land has probably as much experience with early AR's and accessories as any group anywhere. I've learned that most of the time, at least, you get pretty good info here.
You say, "Just because one person cannot identify it does not make it a fake"–– and you are absolutely right! But when the whole of this forum can't identify it, that leaves some real questions.

As pointed out above, while you list it as an "early" Colt, it has the silkscreen logo imprint of later scopes instead of the thin engraved logo of early ones (whether American or Japanese). There's also the placement of the logo (on the upper barrel instead of the center section of the scope, like all other "known" variants), the shape of the numerals and the "mm" label. If you compare the "range" numbers on the turret, I'm guessing they'd be different, too. Additional photos might also show differences in the caps and the adjusters under the caps.

You didn't say how you came by this one, or how long ago, but if you have additional info that leads you to believe this was, in fact, an early "Colt" (not that Colt ever actually made them), please let us know. If this is a previously-unknown variant of the originals, I'm sure we'd all be interested to learn something new!

Hate to say this, but most Americans wouldn't know what 'mm' meant when the 3X20 scopes were made. Got pics of the reticle? Rest of the scope? We're all fascinated by this kind of stuff, and as Olgunner said, you shouldn't take it personally - hope you don't. Likre to know more about this.

ETA: I just looked at the EE pics and it looks damn nice! I noted that it has a combination of the inverted and regular crosshair reticle, which I've never seen. It does look real, but so hard to tell. It does have Colt instructions - I wish I could examine this scope closely, but I can't afford it. I paid $80 for my beatup 3x20. What I would like to know from the seller is what provenance he's using to call it an early model? Just curious here, but hell, we're your market audience. IIRC I bought something from this guy, and he's good to deal with - hope you don't think we're being too hard on you FullBird, but it's a major investment.

This a picture of one I found that looks very much like the one in question.
TOP


right side


left side


This is what was said in the thread about this scope and some like it;

"The originals are HIGHLY collectable, especially the early ones, manufactured by Colt (only 300 made).
Marui made a nice almost-exact copy some time ago, but it's out of production and getting pretty pricey too."

These are not my words and I have no say in this since I'm no Colt scope expert. The placement of the markings and the "mm" seem different.

The one in question is the scope on the left. The scope above is similar to the one on the right.

As the other grandfathers of this forum have stated, the scope directly above this, posted by AR-fan, is a "Colt" scope (3rd model) manufactured in Japan.

While I'm not claiming to be a scope "EXPERT", I've spent hundreds of hours in the US Optics factory. John Jr. the founder of the company used to work for Armalite in the 60's-70's and went on to start his own 100% US manufactured scope company. When Armalite reemerged in the 80's, they attempted to reestablish partnership with John Jr and manufacture their own scopes. While this never came to fruition, John Jr. continued to grow his company into one of the premier scope companies in the world. US Optics is now owned and operated by John III.

What does all this have to do with the scope in question you ask? John III has an extensive collection of scopes dating back to the early 1900's that he inherited from his father. I've looked at all these scopes multiple times. There is not one Colt scope marked the way the one in question is marked.

Like OlGunner stated, " the collective membership here in retro land has probably as much experience with early AR's and accessories as any group anywhere". While I'm not 100% sure it is a fake, based on my experiences with originals as well as what I've learned in this forum and elsewhere, I'm not convinced it's real Colt. I would also state as fact, that it is NOT an "Early Model" as it is described. While the directions are the same as those of the early engraved "Made in USA" scopes, they are easy to reproduce.

Please don't take offense to this. We old farts in this forum just like to make sure the information that is shared with the collector world is as factual as possible. We've spent hours, days, weeks, months, and years researching all the information contained here and on RBR and when we see something suspicious or incorrect, we like to point it out before it's taken as gospel.

Happy Easter everyone and God Bless our troops.

I have withdrawn my scope from sale - my reputation is more important than making a few bucks. I am still not convinced that it is a fake but until I determine its authenticity it is not for sale. Below are all the pictures I posted in the sale ad. It is obvious to me now that I was misinformed concerning my scope being an earlier model than the one shown on the right in the comparison picture. If it is authentic it would be a later model.

Snipertewg - since you appear to know more about these scopes than the rest of us, would you be willing to examine the scope if I sent it to you? PM me directly if you are interested in checking this scope out for me.

Here are all the pics I have of this scope.

The "Passed" sticker definitely proves it is Japanese made. Whether clone or Colt distribution I cannot speak to.

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