FrankenM16A1/A2/M4

Here is a strange collection of rifles from Fort Sill that my soldiers were carrying today. The top rifle in the pic of all 4 is a standard FN M16A2. The middle 2 rifles have older Colt A1 lowers (re-stamped A2) with one of them having an M4 stock. The bottom rifle is an old GM Hydramatic A1 lower (re-stamped A2) with an M4 stock. Just thought you might like to see some of these old lowers still soldiering on.

I dont ever want to hear someone calling my franken guns "out of milspec' again...

Ain't that the truth.

Cool pics, thanks for posting, I all of a sudden feel much better about my collection.

I didnt mean to quote myself, it was supposed to be an edit

My unit has a ton of those.

except for our m4's and m249's the rest of our weapons were probably "out killing commies in 'nam"

Is it common to find full length service rifles with a collapsible buttstock out in the field? Is that personal preference? I always assumed that the 20" rifles would have an a2 fixed buttstock nowadays. Nice pics. Thanks for taking the time to post.

BOOMER

1 of those rifles might be my sons he's stationed up there

I personally haven't deployed since this configuration became officially sanctioned, but I see plenty of them in training land.

Thank you for sharing CAR! I love seeing real deal relics fighting on (or training on anyways).

That GM mixmaster is awesome, pretty intense contrast between upper and lower color.

Apparently anything goes these days.....as long as it goes bang every time. Wonder how long it's been since any of those rifles had projectile ammo through them....

I've seen slab side and partial fence lowers with modern flat top uppers in use in Afghanistan.

Have you been to the base museum to see if they have anything good?

I have not been since they opened the new museum.

Nice post - fun to see the variety and durability of some of the older stuff. Now when I say "close is good enough" on a retro build - I could have an exact match out there somewhere in military use!

Would love to see more people post pics like this!

Here are a few I posted a while back

This is more my speed

Did they mill out the lug on the left side to recess it for the ball and detent of the front pin?

The consensus is that they manufactured A2 uppers specifically for the upgrade contract. Both of these are Colt forge marked; bottom/right one was for the AF upgrade.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Good to see someone has still put them to good use.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Good to see someone has still put them to good use.

Yes, they did make the kit A2 uppers with a recess. It's funny that someone took the time to recognize the need to have a special upper made to support the 601 and 602 lowers, yet didn't address the issue of no forward assist teeth on the 601, 602 and many 604 carriers. The only option units had after these rifles were upgraded was to order a new carrier or not use the forward assist.

In 1991 or 1992, I remember using a USAF M16 for rifle qualification with no forward assist, but having a bolt carrier with the forward assist notches. I asked the instructor about it because I'd never seen those notches on a BC before. I also remember that, at the time, we fired for qualification on an indoor pistol range, so we switched the bolt carrier group to a .22 conversion for actual firing. One of my .22's blew out the back end of the brass.

I believe 604s had the then standardized BCG without having the forward assist.

What I don't get about this is why are they still feeding captain crunch when these rifles are being put to use? I remember seeing a show on the military channel and they were sending up brand new m16a1's up the belt It seems like the m16a1 lower is being used more commonplace on mk18's and m4a1's than a2 lowers these days anyway.

Yes, once the M16A1 was developed the Air force M16s/604s were produced with all updated features of the M16A1minus the forward assist upper. The BCG had teeth, but the upper didn't have the forward assist. The earlier 604s had smooth BCGs and as a rule of thumb, if a 604 has a full fence lower it will likely have teeth on its BCG. The story goes that the Air Force didn't like the forward assist as it implied there was something wrong with the rifle's original design. The Air Force resisted adding the forward assist until the A2 came out.

Tag for answer. Also curious when I see pictures of new A2s being given to Afghans but our guys are still using old A1s.

I would imagine it is just easier logistically to contract new weapons from the manufacture then to have the military turn in their old guns to sell or give them to other countries. The State Department etc would likely be involved with any equipment deal to a foreign nation. Not sure of the markings on the guns turned over to the Afghans, possibly no US Property markings on them.

This has been discussed before, but the "resistance to change" evident in the AF's long use of slickside uppers was likely a matter of pure philosophy. I don't believe it had much to do with anyone refusing to admit that the original design couldn't be improved. After all, weapons evolve and (generally) improve all the time. The 601 became the 602 and the AF didn't object. The 602 became the 604 and the AF didn't object. They only objected when the Army insisted on a forward assist lever.

If your weapon jams or fails to feed successfully, it may be a very bad idea to force it into battery. Those who agree with that view might not want a forward assist on the theory that it can cause more trouble than it solves.

As for the notched carriers in later 604s, that's simply an economy of manufacturing. Why insist on producing two separate full auto carriers when one design would work fine in either upper?

Yeah sounds good, until you've actually used an AR and KNOW that most times there's no other issue than it is a little dirty or and BCG just didn't seat and needs that lil push home. The forward assist should be there.. it really does work.

Ahhh. I wasn't expecting to, but I just learned something new. I had always assumed it was just a replacement BCG. Thanks!

Saw 3 M-16A2s last fall in Iraq w/ railed forends & carbine stocks:



They were unusual enough that I got pics of 'em.

Gig 'em,

backbencher

Wow,
Thats one ugly rifle. I could build a clone of that but then I would be too embarassed to show it to anyone but the zombie hordes!

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