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Which Low Profile piston system for this 10.5" upper?
4/7/2012 12:49:37 AM
Looking to swap my di 10.5" sbr upper to piston. reason is because I will be running it suppressed and want to keep the gas out of the upper/lower. if you have fired a wet suppressor you know how dirtly it is with wet carbon gas covering every part of the internals.
My setup is a 10" yhm diamond quad rail with endcap and a low profile gas block since the rail goes almost to the barrel. only the flash hider sticks out.
So i need a system that will work with the handguard.
I have been looking at the osprey416 and the low profile adams arms. I think i like the 416 design better ( no springs), but the AA low profile seems to be slimmer than the 416.
Any suggestions on which will be the best choice for my setup?
Thanks
edit: the free-float is a one piece thread on type so there looks to be a good amount of room inside, but i am wondering if the width of the 416 would be okay.
edit#2: i just found the thread about the yhm barrel nut being too think to work with the 416. it is designed for a standard barrel nut since the oprod is designed to bottom out on the barrel nut to keep the piston itself together. not sure if the AA is designed this way also, but i dont think it is.
My setup is a 10" yhm diamond quad rail with endcap and a low profile gas block since the rail goes almost to the barrel. only the flash hider sticks out.
So i need a system that will work with the handguard.
I have been looking at the osprey416 and the low profile adams arms. I think i like the 416 design better ( no springs), but the AA low profile seems to be slimmer than the 416.
Any suggestions on which will be the best choice for my setup?
Thanks
edit: the free-float is a one piece thread on type so there looks to be a good amount of room inside, but i am wondering if the width of the 416 would be okay.
edit#2: i just found the thread about the yhm barrel nut being too think to work with the 416. it is designed for a standard barrel nut since the oprod is designed to bottom out on the barrel nut to keep the piston itself together. not sure if the AA is designed this way also, but i dont think it is.
4/7/2012 7:31:50 PM
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
4/8/2012 12:40:03 AM
Originally Posted By Armeddefender:
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
have you tried? looks like it will work with a little fitting. i am gonna do what this guy did http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=126&t=494903. the barrel nut just needs to be machined to the thickness of a standard barrel nut where the op-rod passes through the nut. i found a video on youtube where a guy did about the same thing on a free float tube. looks like a good project.
4/8/2012 2:23:27 AM
Originally Posted By nismo542:
have you tried? looks like it will work with a little fitting. i am gonna do what this guy did http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=126&t=494903. the barrel nut just needs to be machined to the thickness of a standard barrel nut where the op-rod passes through the nut. i found a video on youtube where a guy did about the same thing on a free float tube. looks like a good project.
Originally Posted By Armeddefender:
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
have you tried? looks like it will work with a little fitting. i am gonna do what this guy did http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=126&t=494903. the barrel nut just needs to be machined to the thickness of a standard barrel nut where the op-rod passes through the nut. i found a video on youtube where a guy did about the same thing on a free float tube. looks like a good project.
i cannot suggest machining a barrel nut.....thats one of the most important parts on your rifle....dont go bubbaing it up
4/8/2012 2:33:41 AM
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
4/8/2012 2:45:48 AM
Originally Posted By sinlessorrow:
i cannot suggest machining a barrel nut.....thats one of the most important parts on your rifle....dont go bubbaing it up
Originally Posted By nismo542:
have you tried? looks like it will work with a little fitting. i am gonna do what this guy did http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=126&t=494903. the barrel nut just needs to be machined to the thickness of a standard barrel nut where the op-rod passes through the nut. i found a video on youtube where a guy did about the same thing on a free float tube. looks like a good project.
Originally Posted By Armeddefender:
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
YHM rails will not work with any piston system.
have you tried? looks like it will work with a little fitting. i am gonna do what this guy did http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=126&t=494903. the barrel nut just needs to be machined to the thickness of a standard barrel nut where the op-rod passes through the nut. i found a video on youtube where a guy did about the same thing on a free float tube. looks like a good project.
i cannot suggest machining a barrel nut.....thats one of the most important parts on your rifle....dont go bubbaing it up
the barrel nut is over 1/2" longer than a standard one. i dont see how taking a little off just in the area the piston passes through would cause any problems. i can see how taking total thickness off would be an issue, but the forearm will still have full thread length and engagement except for the tiny bit milled out in the one location the piston passes through. i would get a different rail before i did anything unsafe.
4/8/2012 2:47:12 AM
Originally Posted By oxmav3rickxo:
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
looked up the samson evo10, really like it. ordered it from samson. i can use the yhm on something else. thanks all for your input.
4/8/2012 9:28:06 AM
Originally Posted By nismo542:
looked up the samson evo10, really like it. ordered it from samson. i can use the yhm on something else. thanks all for your input.
Originally Posted By oxmav3rickxo:
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
looked up the samson evo10, really like it. ordered it from samson. i can use the yhm on something else. thanks all for your input.
If your looking for the handguard to go over the gas block, AA will not fit under the rail and I'm almost 100% there is not enough clearance for Osprey...perhaps somebody else can confirm. If your looking for a piston system to fit under the rail....Black Rifle Arms low profile piston system with Samson Evo Rail.
4/8/2012 3:26:03 PM
Originally Posted By Armeddefender:
If your looking for the handguard to go over the gas block, AA will not fit under the rail and I'm almost 100% there is not enough clearance for Osprey...perhaps somebody else can confirm. If your looking for a piston system to fit under the rail....Black Rifle Arms low profile piston system with Samson Evo Rail.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/blackriflearmsgps/blackriflearms556pistonbuild1.jpg
Originally Posted By nismo542:
looked up the samson evo10, really like it. ordered it from samson. i can use the yhm on something else. thanks all for your input.
Originally Posted By oxmav3rickxo:
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
Get a new rail. You'd probably like the Rainier Arms version of the Samson Evo rail. I know that one is piston compatible.
looked up the samson evo10, really like it. ordered it from samson. i can use the yhm on something else. thanks all for your input.
If your looking for the handguard to go over the gas block, AA will not fit under the rail and I'm almost 100% there is not enough clearance for Osprey...perhaps somebody else can confirm. If your looking for a piston system to fit under the rail....Black Rifle Arms low profile piston system with Samson Evo Rail.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/blackriflearmsgps/blackriflearms556pistonbuild1.jpg
Only problem with the yhm rail is the inside diameter is 1.74" and the osprey needs 1.80" minimum for op rod clearance. Looking at the front of the samson, the extra height allowed by the milled out section under the piccatiney rail should be plenty
4/8/2012 4:49:46 PM
Adams arms piston (op-rod) requires 1.02" from barrel centerline. Since the samson evolution is listed to work with adams arms kit then it will work with the osprey kit that only needs 0.80".
4/8/2012 5:31:37 PM
Originally Posted By nismo542:
Adams arms piston requires 1.02" from barrel centerline. Since the samson evolution is listed to work with adams arms kit then it will work with the osprey kit that only needs 0.80".
Adams arms piston requires 1.02" from barrel centerline. Since the samson evolution is listed to work with adams arms kit then it will work with the osprey kit that only needs 0.80".
You need to look at the shape of the Osprey piston to understand.
Most pistons look to be around 1/2" in diameter so they may fit in the rectangular opening below the top rail in some handguards.
The Osprey piston is an arc segment, that is, a rectangular piston that is "wrapped" in an arc around the top 1/4 of the barrel.
It requires a handguard with a larger overall internal diameter.
Joe
4/8/2012 5:59:48 PM
Originally Posted By scudzuki:
You need to look at the shape of the Osprey piston to understand.
Most pistons look to be around 1/2" in diameter so they may fit in the rectangular opening below the top rail in some handguards.
The Osprey piston is an arc segment, that is, a rectangular piston that is "wrapped" in an arc around the top 1/4 of the barrel.
It requires a handguard with a larger overall internal diameter.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o167/scudzuki/OPS416WEB.jpg
Joe
Originally Posted By nismo542:
Adams arms piston requires 1.02" from barrel centerline. Since the samson evolution is listed to work with adams arms kit then it will work with the osprey kit that only needs 0.80".
Adams arms piston requires 1.02" from barrel centerline. Since the samson evolution is listed to work with adams arms kit then it will work with the osprey kit that only needs 0.80".
You need to look at the shape of the Osprey piston to understand.
Most pistons look to be around 1/2" in diameter so they may fit in the rectangular opening below the top rail in some handguards.
The Osprey piston is an arc segment, that is, a rectangular piston that is "wrapped" in an arc around the top 1/4 of the barrel.
It requires a handguard with a larger overall internal diameter.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o167/scudzuki/OPS416WEB.jpg
Joe
The actual piston is not a problem. It will fit. The piston only needs inside diameter of 1.42" and the evo is 1.56" on the "tube portion" of the forearm. The only question is the op rod height. The AA kit requires 1.02" from barrel centerline to the top of the op-rod. Since the evolution works with AA kit then it will work with the ops-416 that only required 0.80". The samson evo has room for both.
4/8/2012 6:14:14 PM
I could not get the clip between the barrel and the op rod on my retrofit.
So, depending on your barrel profile, the op rod retaining clip may add another 3/32" to the clearance requirement (if you have to install it on the outside).
Joe
So, depending on your barrel profile, the op rod retaining clip may add another 3/32" to the clearance requirement (if you have to install it on the outside).
Joe
4/8/2012 6:21:15 PM
Originally Posted By scudzuki:
I could not get the clip between the barrel and the op rod on my retrofit.
So, depending on your barrel profile, the op rod retaining clip may add another 3/32" to the clearance requirement (if you have to install it on the outside).
Joe
I could not get the clip between the barrel and the op rod on my retrofit.
So, depending on your barrel profile, the op rod retaining clip may add another 3/32" to the clearance requirement (if you have to install it on the outside).
Joe
My barrel is 0.73" so there should be room for it under the oprod. What barrel thickness did you have.
4/9/2012 4:02:36 AM
Done this one already. The YHM rail will not work, I did a rifle with a YHM diamond FF rail. The OPS416 will not work with the BBL nut, however Osprey and YHM were working together to develop a special BBL nut to make the OPS416 work with some of the YHM rails, that was 3 years ago so they probably have it now. At the time I successfully modified the YHM BBL nut buy torquing it to spec, marking it and milling a channnel for the oprod to run.
The OPS416 must have room under the rail to operate, so you hvae to account for the width of the piston and its length of travel, thus a 1pc rail wontfly.You can geta 2pc and mill a channel in it, which I also did and it works well. Knowing what I do now, I would tell you to look at Midwest Industries MCTAR21P, 2pc free float, that rail will drop right in and allow the OPS416 to run, it's a good set up! You can also do a Vltor CASV rail with slight mods, another good set up.
I have OPS416's on 2 of my rifles and both run suppressed. There is still gas & carbon, your never going to get away from it in the reciver even with the piston. It comes in through the barrel (backpressure from the can) and the gas tube port to a small degree still. A Gas Buster charging handle also helps a lot.
Good luck!
The OPS416 must have room under the rail to operate, so you hvae to account for the width of the piston and its length of travel, thus a 1pc rail wontfly.You can geta 2pc and mill a channel in it, which I also did and it works well. Knowing what I do now, I would tell you to look at Midwest Industries MCTAR21P, 2pc free float, that rail will drop right in and allow the OPS416 to run, it's a good set up! You can also do a Vltor CASV rail with slight mods, another good set up.
I have OPS416's on 2 of my rifles and both run suppressed. There is still gas & carbon, your never going to get away from it in the reciver even with the piston. It comes in through the barrel (backpressure from the can) and the gas tube port to a small degree still. A Gas Buster charging handle also helps a lot.
Good luck!
4/9/2012 4:51:04 AM
Originally Posted By Ministerofdeath:
Done this one already. The YHM rail will not work, I did a rifle with a YHM diamond FF rail. The OPS416 will not work with the BBL nut, however Osprey and YHM were working together to develop a special BBL nut to make the OPS416 work with some of the YHM rails, that was 3 years ago so they probably have it now. At the time I successfully modified the YHM BBL nut buy torquing it to spec, marking it and milling a channnel for the oprod to run.
The OPS416 must have room under the rail to operate, so you hvae to account for the width of the piston and its length of travel, thus a 1pc rail wontfly.You can geta 2pc and mill a channel in it, which I also did and it works well. Knowing what I do now, I would tell you to look at Midwest Industries MCTAR21P, 2pc free float, that rail will drop right in and allow the OPS416 to run, it's a good set up! You can also do a Vltor CASV rail with slight mods, another good set up.
I have OPS416's on 2 of my rifles and both run suppressed. There is still gas & carbon, your never going to get away from it in the reciver even with the piston. It comes in through the barrel (backpressure from the can) and the gas tube port to a small degree still. A Gas Buster charging handle also helps a lot.
Good luck!
Done this one already. The YHM rail will not work, I did a rifle with a YHM diamond FF rail. The OPS416 will not work with the BBL nut, however Osprey and YHM were working together to develop a special BBL nut to make the OPS416 work with some of the YHM rails, that was 3 years ago so they probably have it now. At the time I successfully modified the YHM BBL nut buy torquing it to spec, marking it and milling a channnel for the oprod to run.
The OPS416 must have room under the rail to operate, so you hvae to account for the width of the piston and its length of travel, thus a 1pc rail wontfly.You can geta 2pc and mill a channel in it, which I also did and it works well. Knowing what I do now, I would tell you to look at Midwest Industries MCTAR21P, 2pc free float, that rail will drop right in and allow the OPS416 to run, it's a good set up! You can also do a Vltor CASV rail with slight mods, another good set up.
I have OPS416's on 2 of my rifles and both run suppressed. There is still gas & carbon, your never going to get away from it in the reciver even with the piston. It comes in through the barrel (backpressure from the can) and the gas tube port to a small degree still. A Gas Buster charging handle also helps a lot.
Good luck!
so did the yhm diamond ff rail work after only modifying the barrel nut for the op rod to have full movement?
i want to keep the look of the 10" rail with just the flash hider sticking out. i ordered the samson evo10. it uses a stock barrel nut so that issue is solved. the inside top of the rail has a milled out valley that the op-rod will ride in and there is room for the piston. the only questionable issue is the transition from the kidney shaped piston to the op-rod. i guess i'll see if it will work when i get all the parts in. the only thing that might need to be done is to take the sharp corners off the transition from the "piston op-rod valley" on the evo10 to give a little more clearance for the ops-416.
