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 CZ V22 upper range report with pics.
swingset  [Member]
11/12/2004 4:05:28 PM
Saw SOG was selling the CZ upper for $265, so I bit and received it the next day. Figured for that kind of coin, it would be worth trying. Was right!

The unit is a side-charger, blowback design. The side charging is nice, doesn't interfere with scope like a charging handle does. The upper is is well made, tight fit and smooth. The finish is painted aluminum, not the slickest in the world, but decent. It doesn't match my Bushy lower at all, much darker black, but that doesn't phase me, personally. Barrel is parked. Bore is tight and crisp, no machining marks visible.

Mag is a synthetic 10 round inside a mag block. Very well made, positive spring and good aluminum follower. Anticipate modifying Ciener mags to get the 30 rounds very soon!

I put a Simmons 3-9x32 on it for plinking, with high weaver rings. Here it is on my Bushy lower:


Here is the upper closer up:






I cleaned it, took it out today and ran it through its paces. First, functioned tested with CCI MiniMax. Flawless through 30 rounds, slow and rapid fire. No failures of any kind.

Next functioned tested with a mix of different ammos in one mag, Rem Golden Bullets, CCI Minimax, Federal Bulk Pack, Stinger and Wolf MT, staggered. No failures, but one dud (Wolf). Chalk that up to ammo, as strike was deep.

Then, cleaned bore and sighted scope in. After 2 shots, was within .5" of bullseye, so I shot 10 rounds of Wolf MT for accuracy. Initial 10-shot group, at 50 yards, was .68". That's outstanding, considering it was cold and the wind was very stiff, probably 10-15mph. Plus, my lower has a stock trigger, polished and lightened spring, but stock none the less. Awesome!

The next 10 shot groups were as follows:
MiniMax: 1.10"
Federal Bulk Pack: .96"
Reminton Club Xtra: .88"
Remington Golden Bullets: 1.33"
Stinger: 1.05"

No malfunctions at all.

So far the only negatives I have are that hand-cycling the rounds must be done quickly. If you go slowly, the bullets tip and go into breech at a severe angle. If you "snap" the action, it's flawless. So, this might just be SOP for the gun. Not a big deal. Also, the painted rail surfaces don't look like they'll hold up to much attachment/detachment without losing their finish, but that's also just a cosmetic thing. Overall, and for the money, I'd say this is an outstanding product and a great way to shoot cheaply. It easily bests my 10/22, and is a whole hell of a lot cooler.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
11/12/2004 4:58:24 PM
Great report.

Can you take a mag apart and post some pics.....wondering how hard it would be to modify/make a higher capacity mag.

Thanks in advance.
swingset  [Member]
11/12/2004 7:21:08 PM

Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
Can you take a mag apart and post some pics.....wondering how hard it would be to modify/make a higher capacity mag.



Will do, first chance I get. Another member sent me photos of the mod he had done to his Ciener 30 rounders to get them to work - seemed easy. Basically opening up the rear of the mag's feed area, and very slightly relieving the area on the bolt that engages it. Said it performs great, fwiw.

I think I'd go that route, as the mags are ready-made.
9sigman45  [Member]
11/12/2004 9:10:28 PM
Do you know the total weight of this rig? I'm planning to get my son his first rifle (22 ofcourse) this year for Christmas. I would guess that with a collapsable or "entry" type stock the LOP would not be a problem for him, but the weight might. I think the AR format would be cool, plus it's something that would retain considerable value over the years (especially if Clinton #2 ever makes into office). Thanks for an excellent report!
swingset  [Member]
11/12/2004 9:19:44 PM

Originally Posted By 9sigman45:
Do you know the total weight of this rig?



Don't have a scale handy, but I'd say it's the same weight as my Hbar 14.5" as a package. Not exactly a lightweight carbine.

It's got a pretty heavy barrel, so it's muzzle heavy. On the good side tho, with it being a pistol grip, the weight sits over the support hand fairly well. My wife is tiny, and she holds it well and doesn't have any complaints about the weight.
user426  [Member]
11/14/2004 8:59:01 AM

Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
Great report.

Can you take a mag apart and post some pics.....wondering how hard it would be to modify/make a higher capacity mag.

Thanks in advance.



Me too...I'm really interested in moding the Ciener mags
Sidx  [Member]
11/14/2004 9:19:16 AM
30rnd Cieners works great with the V22.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=210911
Snake45  [Member]
11/14/2004 9:27:02 AM
Very excellent report, should answer most questions people have about this unit. Thanks for taking the time to share with us.

--Snake, DPMS .22 man but lover of all knowledge
user426  [Member]
11/14/2004 2:24:27 PM
thanks for the report
Jason280  [Team Member]
11/14/2004 3:56:35 PM
Swingset, do you know if SOG is still selling the CZ upper for $265? Are all the uppers new, and can you buy extra mags? I have tried finding a web site, but can't seem to find one. Thanks!
Red-Leg  [Team Member]
11/14/2004 8:24:08 PM

Originally Posted By Jason280:
Swingset, do you know if SOG is still selling the CZ upper for $265? Are all the uppers new, and can you buy extra mags? I have tried finding a web site, but can't seem to find one. Thanks!



www.southernohiogun.com/

They have recently redesigned their web site and it now sucks worse than before. I was unable to find any uppers or anything else outside of surplus firearms and ammo. <shrug>
JH225  [Member]
11/15/2004 6:33:57 PM
SOG is still selling them for $265 on sale. After I ordered mine today , they only have 2 left. Better hurry. My local FFL "stealer" wants $349 for the one he has. F-That!

You have to be SOG's mailing list to recieve the monthly flyers, as their website sucks.
EddieCar  [Member]
11/16/2004 1:11:18 PM
I don't know about the Ciener mags but...I just got off the phone with Al from www.alscustom.com and he's testing 25 rnd mags for the CZ V22 upper. My understanding is that they look like regular AR mags. Al is going to send me picks of the mags in a day or two and I'll post the pic here.
swingset  [Member]
11/16/2004 8:10:49 PM

Originally Posted By EddieCar:
I don't know about the Ciener mags but...I just got off the phone with Al from www.alscustom.com and he's testing 25 rnd mags for the CZ V22 upper. My understanding is that they look like regular AR mags. Al is going to send me picks of the mags in a day or two and I'll post the pic here.



Awesome, hope that works out. And, more importantly, I hope they're not $59 like the Ciener mags.....ugh that's a lot of coin for a magazine.
user426  [Member]
11/16/2004 8:46:00 PM
Considering that the Ciener mag is the only 30 round mag around....59.00 seems almost reasonable ...considering that he could ask a lot more ...and all of us that own his conversion would most likely pay....the price.....
swingset  [Member]
11/17/2004 3:07:05 AM

Originally Posted By user426:
59.00 seems almost reasonable



Not to me.

If he's making them in a small run, even if farmed out to a specialized die shop, he's justifying his high price by the high cost of manufacture no doubt. But, that's a foolish way to do it. Sell them cheaper, and you'll sell more which equals a lower manufacturing cost which equals happier customers, which equals more conversions which equals....you get the point. If they were $25 instead of $60, you'd buy 3 instead of one wouldn't you? I would.

I am always amazed when these topics come up, that this isn't glaringly obvious.
EddieCar  [Member]
11/17/2004 9:54:21 AM


Here is the picture of the mags. Not quite what I thought but good enough for me.
The price for the mags are $80 a piece. I'll get a few just because they are made for the CZ V22 vs the Ciener that have to be modified. I'll pay the extra 20 for reliability.
user426  [Member]
11/17/2004 10:15:08 AM


I am always amazed when these topics come up, that this isn't glaringly obvious.



It is obvious...and I do agree BUT.....we are dealing with a nitch market...I don't think there are thousands of shooters banging down his doors to get these mags.....look at the previous post....EddieCar is willing to pay 80 bucks for a few of these new mags for the CZ....
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
11/17/2004 10:44:24 AM
I see a red X on the new mag picture....help.
EddieCar  [Member]
11/17/2004 4:19:25 PM
I know $80 is a lot of money...however so is $60 for a Ciener mag.

I don't want to spend $60 for a mag that I would have to modify and if I'm lucky it would work most of the time, the rest of the time I would have to fiddle and fidget with it to get it to work properly.

I would spend the $80 for a hi-cap mag that is made specifically for the V22, especially if I don't have to worry about the reliability of the mag.

As it is now the 10rnd mags for the CZ V22 are between $30 and $45 a piece.
These guys are the only ones making hi-cap mags specifically for the CZ V22.

Do I want to spend that much money??? Noooo, but they're the only ones making them...the law of supply and demand they have them and I want them...It's the way it is.


user426  [Member]
11/17/2004 4:37:00 PM

Originally Posted By EddieCar:
I know $80 is a lot of money...however so is $60 for a Ciener mag.

I don't want to spend $60 for a mag that I would have to modify and if I'm lucky it would work most of the time, the rest of the time I would have to fiddle and fidget with it to get it to work properly.

I would spend the $80 for a hi-cap mag that is made specifically for the V22, especially if I don't have to worry about the reliability of the mag.

As it is now the 10rnd mags for the CZ V22 are between $30 and $45 a piece.
These guys are the only ones making hi-cap mags specifically for the CZ V22.

Do I want to spend that much money??? Noooo, but they're the only ones making them...the law of supply and demand they have them and I want them...It's the way it is.





My point exactly..........
swingset  [Member]
11/18/2004 4:31:48 PM

Originally Posted By EddieCar:
Do I want to spend that much money??? Noooo, but they're the only ones making them...the law of supply and demand they have them and I want them...It's the way it is.





Understood.....but if you were making the V22 mags, and they cost you $50 to produce (I doubt that, but let's say 50 for argument's sake). You can sell them at $80 for a $30 profit....and sell quite a few. But, someone like me will not buy one, or possibly buy just one. $30 profit for Al's....maybe.

What if those mags were $60, same as Ciener but made for the V22? I'd buy 2. $20 profit for Als, and word of mouth from me to other CZ owners, and they'll probably buy 2, and their friends will buy 2.

What if, pray tell, those mags only cost $40 to produce, and he charged $50? Then what?

Business 101. Supply and demand isn't a business model...it's a condition. A business model is sell cheap, sell often. Or, sell high and hope desperation takes hold. Which made Walmart successful?

I was in the retail electronics business for a number of years, and fought this battle for myself. When I started learning how to get the dollar signs out of my eyes and really sell cheaply, I made a lot more money and had more customers, even tho I had few big-box retail near me. Some guys have a hard time believing they can sell cheaply and still exist, but those are the businesses that fail when someone sells a cheaper mousetrap.
AlsCustom  [Dealer]
11/18/2004 8:10:30 PM
I am not finished with the testing as of yet but so far no malfuctions. I have a couple of more uppers coming to test before I will post any of these magazines for sale. I'll give an update as soon as I am finished with the testing.

These are fully machine from bar stock and weight about 12oz's

Pricing will be around $80.00. I can assure you that I will not be making $30.00 profit on these. Shipping and paper work is the biggest expense.



sales@alscustom.com

www.alscustom.com
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
11/19/2004 8:57:25 AM
That mag looks awesome.....but a bit high for me....