SBR-ing a 9mm carbine

Giving some serious thought to getting my 6450 cut to 10.5"
Did a search here for the fine points without any luck, so I apologize if this ground has been covered before.

Is there a guide to doing the paperwork for the SBR process?
It is also my understanding that the item of record (the lower) has to be engraved. What needs to be on there?
Can an SBR be sold? How does that process work?

Be patient with me, and thanks.
Moon

There's a section dedicated to the topic. Very valuable.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_6/51_Short_Barrel_Rifles__SBR_.html

In short:
Fill out the proper, 2-SIDED forms.
Get your local chief LEO's signature and get fingerprinted on THE FINGERPRINT CARDS YOU RECEIVED FROM THE NFA BRANCH.
Send the forms, fingerprint cards and a $200 check to an office building in West Virginia.
Wait for 6 months.
Get your tax stamp in the mail.
Get the lower receiver engraved, and get the barrel cut. (In that order.)
Smile, and start the process again for the suppressor.

Thanks, Squib; I didn't find that on my own.

The short take; where do I get the appropriate paperwork? Directly from the AFT?

Thanks again,
Moon

Just hit the ATF.gov site –– forms –– 5320.1 in duplicate,, and the 5330.20 in singular I think it is..

Duplicate ––. means 2 copy, take and print 2 front page, then shove the paper back in printer and print the rear page, so you have 2 form in duplicate (front+rear on same sheet of paper)..

SBR Knows his stuff...this works, but you can also order the forms (pre-printed) directly from the ATF. You'll also need two NFA fingerprint cards (code "FBI - FD-258LE").

It's worth taking the plunge!

HEHEHEHEE,,, my Uzi had it' 24th yr purchase birthday yesterday (Mar 16 1988) and it 23rd SBR birhtday back in Jan (Jan 23 1989)

Guys, thanks, I've printed off the paperwork (are the fingerprint cards available from the local police?), so we'll see if we can get this ball rolling.
I'm likely to have more questions, but for now, thanks!
Moon

Do the printed off forms need to be done front and back, or are you able to just attach them together as long as they are duplicate?

SBR will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you need the fingerprint cards from ATF.

You MUST print those forms front-and-back, exactly the way he said: print the front, turn the paper over and stick it back in the printer, and print the back. Do that twice so both copies are identical. ATF is getting less and less lenient on us for our shortcuts, so the closer you make your forms to the printed ones from them, the better.

Porter is correct, FD-258 cards need to come from ATF.. Materials Distribution Center is easiest way to get them,, be sure to plenty of extra. Coming from ATF they will generally already have the ORI box already filled out (printed)..

I have my trust almost finished, so I shouldn't be needing the print cards if I understand correctly right?

Correct. Trusts and corporations don't require photos and fingerprints (nor do they require CLEO signatures). When you submit the paperwork, you will need to submit the ENTIRE trust, not just a summary document. In duplicate. DO NOT SEND YOUR ORIGINAL of the trust, just two copies. Include the Schedule A list of the trust's assets. I listed the stripped lower I was registering on that schedule, on advice that the trust should already own the lower that "it is registering."

Read thru' some of Squib's link, and learned some things at least.

I did send off for the BATF paperwork today, as well as the forms I need to renew my C&R.

What needs to be engraved on the lower?

It sounds like a trust is a better way to go, but how much trouble is it to set one up?

Thanks again,
Moon

If registered to an individual, the lower needs to be engraved with your name, city, and state:
John Q. Gunowner
Coolguns, PA

I'm not sure exactly what a trust needs to engrave.

Don't wait for the form to come back before you get it engraved. That would just be another wait. It's not like the ATF actually denies forms so long as you filled it out correctly. But do wait to actually cut the barrel or buy a short one until you get the stamp back. I lost track of time with one of my SBRs and I bummed I had to wait yet again while I sent the lower out for engraving.


Bitter Bastard

Your Trusts name, city, state.

What's the deal if you ever want to sell the registered lower?

How hard is it to set up a trust? Is it worth the trouble as compared to just putting your name on it?

Thnx,
Moon

If possible I would list it with multiple length barrels or at least a 5 inch. This gives you an option to use different lengths. Mine is listed as a 10.5 on paper but I currrently run a DOE 7inch. ATF told me I do not need to update my form, just don't get rid of the original 10.5 barrel.

I went the trust route twice. It is nice to have folks you trust allowed to possess the NFA items too. I also liked not having to get fingerprints or a CLEO sign off. If a form is double sided you have to submit it that way. I filled out mine online and printed them.

The NFA branch will reject the application. You list ONE length as the original configuration, and you get your tax stamp. The rifle is not limited to that one length barrel-once it is registered as a SBR, you can put ANY length barrel on it.

As long as you keep the ability to put the SBR in its "original configuration," you're fine. If you sell off that upper and thus no longer can put it in that configuration, ATF requests you send them a letter indicating what the new default length is so they can keep the NFA database accurate. That helps them comply with their marching orders and makes everything flow smoothly.

Again, once it is registered, you can put ANY LENGTH BARREL on your SBR. Any caliber too... Just keep that original upper handy so technically your SBR can be in its registered configuration.

I'm filling out the paperwork now and have a couple questions regarding the blocks to be filled out. I have SBR'd a AR but not a 9mm, the questions I have is what goes in bolck:
4a Type of firearm to be made....On the AR I put Short barrel rifle/for this one is it a short barrel rifle or pistol?
1d Model: I huess it would be LAR9...since its a Rock River

block 4a - SBR (caliber doesn't matter, you are making a SBR)

yes list the model as LAR9

Thanks for the reply, I thought the caliber did matter but I guess it doesn't since you can throw on a different upper in another caliber. Thanks again

Just took it and got it signed for a 5.5", I know that it can be changed afterwards. Now I have to decide on what legnth, if the signature goes away I will get another suppressor I can't get another signature for a can.

DO list the caliber. ATF will reject an application, even for an SBR, without a caliber listed. You WILL need to list a length too; the caliber and length (barrel and overall length) become the "original configuration" for this firearm. Once registered, you can put ANY length barrel on it, and configure it in ANY caliber the lower will handle.

And they only ask they you inform them, via writing, of any permanent changes to the configuration. Although if you keep the original around, your GTG.

I was thinking about this, what if I originally put down a 5.5 barrel and decided to use a 10.5. Why would you even have to inform them since a longer barrel was being used, I figured they would be more concerned with a shorter barrel.

It is about the "original configuration" I mentioned earlier. The NFA Branch is legally required to keep the NFA database as accurate as possible, so if you originally register an SBR with a 10.5" barrel in 5.56mm, and keep that upper, it doesn't matter to anyone what other upper you put on it because you can "restore it" to its original configuration and the database is still correct. But if you PERMANENTLY change, as in sell off that 10.5" 5.56mm upper, then you cannot make the SBR match the original configuration and the database will be wrong.

And remember, once it is registered, you can put ANY LENGTH or caliber upper you feel like onto that SBR'd lower.

Since these are the guys that get our tax stamps to us (albeit slowly), it is worth the shooting community's time to make the job of keeping the database accurate as easy as possible.

Strangely enough, six stamps in and I've NEVER used BATFE-provided fingerprint cards, rather those provided at the jail which bear the ORI of the sheriff's office who runs said jail.

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