Reversing directions in the bore with bronze brush...

So...long story short, I was dumb enough to let my friend who shot a lot of ammo through my rifle, clean it. He has an AR and should know better.

In any case, I caught him putting a bronze brush halfway into the barrel, reversing directions, and pulling it all the way back out. I told him to immediately stop, and give me the damned rifle. I asked him how many times he'd done it, and he said about 10. I asked how he was able to pull it back out when it was half way in, and he said he just kept rotating the brush clockwise while pulling hard to get it out.

I know this is a big no-no. The question is, how likely is it that my barrel is damaged to the point of affecting reliability/accuracy? It is made by BCM, and is chrome lined. He also did this to the chamber.

Suffice it to say I'll never let anyone clean my gun ever again, but I'm really worried this caused irreparable harm, and quite frankly I don't know. How likely is it that this is a problem?

I would be more concerned about the brush.

Can you imagine the forces of a bullet being smashed down the barrel? That brush hasn't 1000th the pressure that bullet has.

I would think if your brass brush could do damage, you should buy a better barrel.

A bore scope or other optical aid is the only way to know for sure. If you have a camera with a "macro" setting and a zoom lense, maybe you can get some pictures of the bore to put your mind at ease.

These pics were taken with a $175 camera.

Even with the reduced sized pics, it is adequate to see damage.

Seriously?? Unless your barrel is made out of 24K gold you are fine....SHEESH...

The only reason I'd have worried was if I caught him cleaning from the muzzle end - with a tap.

The only reason NOT to reverse directions and the reason it is a big NO NO is simply this. The brush often gets stuck. As the brush is being pushed through the barrel, the bristles get angled back. Once through the end the the barrel, the direction is reversed and the bristles get angled forward. If you change direction mid way, there isn't enough diameter in the barrel to allow the change of direction and the brush gets stuck.

Really your barrel should be fine I wouldn't worry about it. However I would be annoyed as well - you paid good money for that rifle and I can understand the the annoyance. But in the end the only thing that's going to get damaged there is the brush.

I would be more worried with humitidy and rust then pitting, even corrosive ammo, but don't worry about a brush getting stuck

No big deal, rock on.

Yeah, I don't care about the brush. They're relatively cheap. I've always been told not to reverse directions inside the bore because it could damage the barrel. But then, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Or maybe they're talking about thousand dollar precision barrels. I don't know.

But anyway, thanks all for putting my mind at ease

Not going to got hurt a thing! I laugh at the guys who claim using bore brushes cause wear and damage and "only clean from the chamber to muzzle or you will cause damage". Guess they never saw or cleaned a revolver or lever gun.

Guess you never shot benchrest or rimfire silhouette.

The correct answer to Alias' question very much depends on frame of reference.

Insofar as my surplus, somewhat pitted, FA Uzi barrels are concerned, not only would/do I scrub back and forth with bronze brushes, but I am not afraid to stick brushes (with WD40) in a cordless drill and have at it if I see too much carbon in the chamber area. Using bronze brushes, I do the same with shotguns - even pricey Berettas and Perazzis.

I assume you know why M1 Garands are gauged for crown wear? Then, it's a rare levergun that will crack 1.5 MOA with some consistency. We could use Otis/boresnake type cleaning kits on our Garands and leverguns. But in truth, we're not likely going to mess up the crown sufficiently to cause a noticeable deterioration in accuracy (especially leverguns, given the relatively low volume of rounds a typical levergun sees).

Revolvers can see cleaning-technique related decrements in potential accuracy. IMO, not one shooter in 50 is good enough to notice it.

Now let's go the other direction. I have some nice 0.35ish MOA varmint rifles, and a couple of Anschutz .22s. I use only nylon bristle with the CFs, and mostly no-brushing at all on the RFs. Ask Dieter Anschutz if that's silly. Or just go to steelchickens.com or rimfirecentral.com and see if anyone will tell you to go ahead and swab an Anschutz back and forth with a bronze brush. About as aggressive as I'll go with an accurate CF bolt gun is Kroil/paste.

Alias, you did not do thing one to hurt your bore. Back and forth with a bronze brush a few times will not harm the chrome lining. DV8 correctly notes the real concern is sticking the brush. You do not want to have to drive one out the hard way.

Sam

There seems to be some confusion with SOME of the replies.

The question is not whether to go back and forth, out the front of the barrel and then the other way. That is a different debate.

I'm talking about changing directions half-way through the bore. It did get stuck pretty badly. He had to pull with all his strength to dislodge it, but it did come out.

That's what I understood from your first post. No, you didn't hurt anything. I don't recommend you continue the practice. Sam

Id like to make sure I understand this correctly, it IS ok to run your brush from breech to muzzle then pull it back through? (Note: as in not reversing direction in barrel) and secondly, I've always been told chrome lined barrels last longer, and I actually have a stainless steel noveske barrel on my sbr. That being said are stainless steel barrels the kings of longevity? Any cleaning differences? Thanks and sorry for the thread-jack.

1. Yes, it's OK.
2. No, chrome lined is kiing of longevity. Stainless is a bit better than chrome-moly (not lined).
3. No difference, though some compulsive types will adopt benchrest technique with Kroil/paste and avoid back and forth brushing and NH3+ solvents. If your gun is a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter then I would consider switching. I've got a couple of Swifts with stainless bbls that do 1/2 MOA and I use standard back/forth and Hoppes on them. YMMV.

Sam

On number 3, why not use the NH3 solvents? And about the 1/2 moa quote, if i switched should i expect better or worse accuracy if i switch?

1st question: many benchrest shooters advocate Kroil/Paste and will not expose the bore to anything that tends to oxidize any metal, even Cu++. Not entirely sure why, but there probably is some basis that supports them. You can google the subject yourself and get some different perspectives.

2nd question: the chances that a stainless AR barrel will be so accurate that you would see a difference are slim to none. I have used Kroil/paste to clean severely fouled blaster M16 bbls. Obviously, the rationale has zero to do with accuracy. And most recently I've begun to use Patch-Out. Bottom line: don't fret.

Sam

NH3 solvents can etch stainless.

Archive

Curious - Also did what to the chamber? Changed direction of the (bore/chamber?) brush while in the chamber? You would do what different? You push your chamber bush all the way out the muzzle?

There was an interview that John Kreiger gave where he was asked about brusing the barrel.

He said the issue wasn't the bronze bristles, it was the little peices of carbon and fouling that you were trying to brush out, and/or them being trapped in the brush.

Yes, indeed. Ammonia can oxidize just about anything, including chrome plating. But the effect very much depends on concentration. Insofar as dilute NH3+ cleaners like #9 are concerned, there is no need to worry unless you leave it on nickel plating (guess how I learned this). Generations of shooters have used #9 on chrome-moly and stainless steels without problem. I started using it in the 1960s. It is still my "first pass" cleaner for most rifle barrels, including some tackdrivers and Anschutz rimfire rifles. I leave it in for no longer than 24 hrs on most rifles, and limit exposure to less than 6 hrs on the uber-accurate stuff.

But the fact remains - it is a good safe product. Used with a modicum of sense, it will not harm anyone's AR.

Sweets and Barnes are a different matter. Then, we're supposed to read the directions on the bottles, right?

Sam

I take it since you mentioned the NH3 solvents after my gunslick foaming bore cleaner post that gunslicks foaming bore cleaner is indeed NH3 based?
Oh and fwiw I use gunslick foaming lubricant from buffer to bore if that changes anything.

As above, I've started using the non-foaming version - Patch-Out. So far I'm very pleased. The product info specifically states it can be left in the bore, though it clearly contains NH3+, as evidenced by the color of patches, and odor. Stuff seems very soapy.

Have not tried foaming lube, but it probably does not contain NH3+ (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong here).

no idea on what is in a can of gunslick fbc.

+1 been using #9 for years, no problems. Aslo been using Shooters choice version of Sweets 7.62, no longer than 7 min in the barrel, nasty stuff.
Now I use Gunslick FBC, 15 to 30 foam time, love the stuff cause it is so simple to use.

nickle plating has more to due with nh3 and copper than nh3 and steel.

yea the fbc is just so easy i cant seem to turn away from it. thanks for the input everyone.

I'd be pissed too if some jack wagon was only cleaning half my barrel.

Sooo how exactly am i supposed to run my brush down my AR?

not sure if serious, but if you are. if our running a dewey rod or similar go bore to muzzle unscrew brush come back and repeat.

I think most people get a little to carried away with a bronze brush. Even after a few hard days of shooting, I only run it down a couple strokes just to stir all the crap up and get the stubborn stuff unseated. Better to let your patch and jag do the actual cleaning.

If your running something like a n otis kit, just pull the brush out same direction and repeat.

Either way your gonna want to let your brush spin with the rifling of the barrel, you shoudl feel it riding the grooves, that's good.

If you can reverse a brush mid bore, then the brush is probably worn out or slightly too small.

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