I think I found some rare ammo...

Picked this stuff up at the pawn shop for $3 a pack. From what I gather, it's East German ammo, corrosive, with steel coated wood or plastic bullets. They used it for training rounds and airport security. It says 10 Stuck, which I guess means 10 rounds, and M43 Ub, which I guess is the round designation. Can anyone tell me anything else about this stuff? Thanks.

Sorry for the crappy pics.

That's, like you said, East German Ammo. They call it "Kurzbahn", what means Short Range. It was Training Ammo. Almost no Recoil, shoots like a .22. Works great in AK's, but in VZ58 i had some troubles. The East Geman had different Types of Ammo. M43 (Steel Core), M43 LSpur (Tracer), the Kurzbahn, Blanks and "Treibpatrone M43". I don't know the english Word for Treibpatrone, but it was for firing Rifle Grenades.

Thanks for the info. I heard it only cycles in AK's well. VZ and SKS rfiles don't handle it well.

The correct designation is "Ubungspatrone" (practice cartridge) not Kurzbahn. It is not a short range cartridge. It was intended for use out to 300 meters. It is not rare, as millions of rounds of it were imported. It is fun to shoot as the recoil is light, but it is corrosive primed. AKs run this ammunition well, but some SKS rifles short stroke on it. Never tried any out of a vz.58...

This is powerful ammunition. The 62 gr. projectile is moving at over 3,000fps at the muzzle. I've fired this ammunition through 6-8" diameter live trees.

It is untrue that it was used for "airport security" or anything other than target practice.

1DD

I have a little ammo like that but mine is all grey and I was wondering what that stuff was. Its weighs less than regular ammo and the actual bullet is shaped funny, just like that picture.

You shouldn't shoot live trees, what did they ever do to you?

@1Devildog, you're right, the official name is M43Üb, like you say Übungspatrone. They sold the Stuff here in Switzerland in the 90ies as Kurzbahn because in most Indoorranges we can't shoot Rifles. This M43Üb was allowed, so the importer call it Kurzbahn. I'm sorry for the wrong information.

How accurate is it? Minute of pie plate at 100 yards?

I picked up 2 or 3 K of that stuff back in the early 90's. If I could get $3 a package for what I have left, I'd probably sell it all.
I need to get a beater AK so I can shoot more of it up. I am sad to hear that the VZ-58's have trouble with it. I was seriously considering buying one.

The bullets are open at the base and they very distinctly smell like burning plastic when you shoot them. They were designed as 'reduced range' training ammunition. That simply means that they do not have the same potentially lethal range as standard ball, and by that I mean MAXIMUM range, not effective range. They are light and lose velocity/energy much faster than ball. Also, the design of the bullet itself, flat-base round-nose, means that it will destabilize at a much shorter range than standard ball. It is my understanding that because of their light weight and purposeful bullet design, they lose virtually all of their velocity/energy at a little over 1000 meters.

The packing slip that comes in each crate says that the safety range is 1,300 meters.

1DD

I found a little of this mixed in some loose ammo I bought, not sure now what the headstamp is though.
I did a search because I had never seen any before.
One source said it is a frangible projectile. It also said that over in the Combloc countries there are a lot of dwellings and other structures constructed of concrete block and other forms of masonry where richocets would be a bad thing for anyone making a room entry ect so they (the law and military) use this type of ammo in those situations.
I don't know if there's a lick of truth to that.

Ummm... I would say no, not true. It is certainly not 'frangible'. It is a FMJ projectile with the jacket being made of gilding metal clad mild steel which is then oxidized to darken it. It will richochet when hitting a hard surface at an angle. It would be less likely than a steel-cored M43 bullet to bounce back at you off of steel or masonry if it hit at a 90degree angle, but that is about it. It is simply training ammunition. While it is lethal and could certainly be used as such, I sincerely doubt that it ever has.
There seems to be a TON of confusion about this round on the internet. I recall a thread on a board(maybe even this one) a while back in which a poster suggested that this round was a kind of 'Less than lethal' munition. I just about Flipped out of my chair.
I have even heard people claim that it is 'armor-piercing'. Citing the black bullet as proof positive of it.

In my opinion, the exact opposite is true. I can see these rounds being more of a ricochet hazard because they do not deform as redily as lead or steel core ball projectiles. That plastic is TOUGH and resilient. Remember my earlier post where I mentioned that these will go through a 6-8" diameter tree? They are by no means frangible or short range or less-lethal. I have no doubt that if these were the only rounds I had for my AK, I would not be at a disadvantage. At CQB ranges, I beleive they will kill very well...

The seed of truth about anti-ricochet rounds is that the Russians adopted a 5.45 ball round with lower ricochet potential than the standard 7n6 steel core ball or the newly adopted 7n10 enhanced penetration ball round. They learned during the urban fighting in Chechnya that the steel cored ball rounds ricochet badly inside the common concrete block wall housing... This magical new low-ricochet round? Lead core ball...essentially the exact cartridge we get over here sold as "Golden Tiger", to include the commercial headstamp! A Russian cartridge collector showed me a pic of a military marked spam can of these rounds and the cartridges had the commercial "Vympel" headstamp!

DD

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