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Barrel discoloration due to Shooter's Choice...
9/26/2009 5:17:26 PM
I came home from the range today and started off the cleaning session with my Kahr P9. I ran a couple of wet patches of Shooter's Choice MC #7 through the bore, scrubbed it a few times, ran a few more wet patches through, then dried it out. After doing this, I decided to soak the barrel for a little while. Being lazy, I just stuck the barrel in the bottle, even though it didn't submerge the entire barrel. After letting it sit for 12 minutes, I pulled the barrel out to find this:
So, has anyone else run into similar issues with MC #7? I have emailed Shooter's Choice, but don't expect a response till mid week. According to the bottle, there is nothing wrong with letting a barrel soak, just not overnight (which Shooter's Choice explains on their website).
So, has anyone else run into similar issues with MC #7? I have emailed Shooter's Choice, but don't expect a response till mid week. According to the bottle, there is nothing wrong with letting a barrel soak, just not overnight (which Shooter's Choice explains on their website).
9/26/2009 9:06:12 PM
Huh. I have used Shooters Choice for years, including using it on my PM9, and have never had any problems.
9/27/2009 4:23:54 PM
Have you been dipping patches in the bottle or soaking other things?
If so, your cleaner may be contaminated, and the contamination coated the barrel.
No big deal, just use any good metal polish to clean off the discolored area.
If so, your cleaner may be contaminated, and the contamination coated the barrel.
No big deal, just use any good metal polish to clean off the discolored area.
9/27/2009 5:19:03 PM
Please just go shoot the damn thing.
Iron wool will pull it off for you.
Iron wool will pull it off for you.
9/28/2009 7:13:32 PM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
Have you been dipping patches in the bottle or soaking other things?
If so, your cleaner may be contaminated, and the contamination coated the barrel.
No big deal, just use any good metal polish to clean off the discolored area.
Have you been dipping patches in the bottle or soaking other things?
If so, your cleaner may be contaminated, and the contamination coated the barrel.
No big deal, just use any good metal polish to clean off the discolored area.
Yes, I have dipped patches to run through the barrel and I have also dipped that barrel and another pistol barrel in the bottle, though not excessively, only a couple of times. That seems to make sense now that I think about it, but I have dipped my 1911's barrel in, for slightly shorter periods of time, and have not had the same effect. I have contacted Shooter's Choice and we are discussing it via email at the moment.
9/28/2009 8:04:31 PM
Anytime you ‘soak’ something, always make sure it is completely submerged.
Otherwise you can end up with a etch line where the surface of the chemical, metal and air come together and react
Otherwise you can end up with a etch line where the surface of the chemical, metal and air come together and react
9/29/2009 10:59:51 AM
Your lucky your plating wasn't copper based.
9/29/2009 12:05:55 PM
My first thought on seeing this post is that the barrel is plated. I say this because I have an unfired P9 that has wear on the barrel hood from the slide being manipulated. The wear is consistent with a plated barrel.
I tried calling Kahr, but after 15 minutes waiting on hold, I gave up. Regardless, if it's a nickel plating, that would explain your situation. Years ago I made the mistake of letting my barrel soak for 30 minutes in Shooter's Choice. It was a 1911 barrel that was coated in Robar's NP3. Unfortunately, I didn't consider the fact that Shooter's Choice aggressively attacks copper, which is the base plating for any nickel plating. My NP-3 flaked right off. I also had a little on my NP3ed frame, which I had wiped off with a rag. It discolored the finish in the same exact manner as your barrel photo. I only read the label after I did this, and I learned an expensive lesson.
If the Kahr barrel is plated, and if it's nickel, this would explain your results. I'm just taking a guess. Looking at my barrel, it looks chrome plated, not nickel. I've never seen nor heard of Shooter's Choice being a problem on chrome plated parts.
I tried calling Kahr, but after 15 minutes waiting on hold, I gave up. Regardless, if it's a nickel plating, that would explain your situation. Years ago I made the mistake of letting my barrel soak for 30 minutes in Shooter's Choice. It was a 1911 barrel that was coated in Robar's NP3. Unfortunately, I didn't consider the fact that Shooter's Choice aggressively attacks copper, which is the base plating for any nickel plating. My NP-3 flaked right off. I also had a little on my NP3ed frame, which I had wiped off with a rag. It discolored the finish in the same exact manner as your barrel photo. I only read the label after I did this, and I learned an expensive lesson.
If the Kahr barrel is plated, and if it's nickel, this would explain your results. I'm just taking a guess. Looking at my barrel, it looks chrome plated, not nickel. I've never seen nor heard of Shooter's Choice being a problem on chrome plated parts.
9/29/2009 1:29:23 PM
Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
My first thought on seeing this post is that the barrel is plated. I say this because I have an unfired P9 that has wear on the barrel hood from the slide being manipulated. The wear is consistent with a plated barrel.
I tried calling Kahr, but after 15 minutes waiting on hold, I gave up. Regardless, if it's a nickel plating, that would explain your situation. Years ago I made the mistake of letting my barrel soak for 30 minutes in Shooter's Choice. It was a 1911 barrel that was coated in Robar's NP3. Unfortunately, I didn't consider the fact that Shooter's Choice aggressively attacks copper, which is the base plating for any nickel plating. My NP-3 flaked right off. I also had a little on my NP3ed frame, which I had wiped off with a rag. It discolored the finish in the same exact manner as your barrel photo. I only read the label after I did this, and I learned an expensive lesson.
If the Kahr barrel is plated, and if it's nickel, this would explain your results. I'm just taking a guess. Looking at my barrel, it looks chrome plated, not nickel. I've never seen nor heard of Shooter's Choice being a problem on chrome plated parts.
My first thought on seeing this post is that the barrel is plated. I say this because I have an unfired P9 that has wear on the barrel hood from the slide being manipulated. The wear is consistent with a plated barrel.
I tried calling Kahr, but after 15 minutes waiting on hold, I gave up. Regardless, if it's a nickel plating, that would explain your situation. Years ago I made the mistake of letting my barrel soak for 30 minutes in Shooter's Choice. It was a 1911 barrel that was coated in Robar's NP3. Unfortunately, I didn't consider the fact that Shooter's Choice aggressively attacks copper, which is the base plating for any nickel plating. My NP-3 flaked right off. I also had a little on my NP3ed frame, which I had wiped off with a rag. It discolored the finish in the same exact manner as your barrel photo. I only read the label after I did this, and I learned an expensive lesson.
If the Kahr barrel is plated, and if it's nickel, this would explain your results. I'm just taking a guess. Looking at my barrel, it looks chrome plated, not nickel. I've never seen nor heard of Shooter's Choice being a problem on chrome plated parts.
I believe the Kahr barrel is carbon steel with chrome plating. I am not a metallurgist so feel free to correct me, but I think there are always going to be microgaps and porosity in most metal coatings. This is how solvents gets through nickel to attack the copper underneath. When the copper is dissolved the nickel has nothing to adhere too and flakes off. This applies to chrome plating as well and if you're doing a barrel where your main goal is to add durability, the porosity number might be fairly high. If you soak the solvent with whatever contaminants may be included, it goes through the chrome to the carbon steel discoloring it. A lot of things will discolor carbon steel.
9/29/2009 9:50:26 PM
Kahr hard chromes some parts.
This is not like nickel or decorative chrome, this is a hard chrome that's plated directly to the steel.
There are very few chemicals that will damage hard chrome and Shooter's Choice normally isn't one of them.
My early Kahr K9 stainless steel is actually all hard chromed except for the slide, frame, and a couple of internal parts. Barrel, grip screws, slide stop, and most other parts are hard chrome.
If you dip patches, bore brushes, or parts in bore solvent it gets contaminated. This can "kill" the solvent so it doesn't work, and can transfer fouling INTO the gun instead of removing it.
I'm not sure, but it's possible you contaminated the solvent and this has discolored the hard chrome.
To apply solvent to patches or brushes, use a hobby paint and solvent transfer bulb. This is a plastic dropper available from most hobby and lab supply houses.
NEVER dip bronze bore brushes in the bottle, that contaminates fast.
If you want to soak parts, pour the solvent in another bottle, then pitch it when it no longer works.
This is not like nickel or decorative chrome, this is a hard chrome that's plated directly to the steel.
There are very few chemicals that will damage hard chrome and Shooter's Choice normally isn't one of them.
My early Kahr K9 stainless steel is actually all hard chromed except for the slide, frame, and a couple of internal parts. Barrel, grip screws, slide stop, and most other parts are hard chrome.
If you dip patches, bore brushes, or parts in bore solvent it gets contaminated. This can "kill" the solvent so it doesn't work, and can transfer fouling INTO the gun instead of removing it.
I'm not sure, but it's possible you contaminated the solvent and this has discolored the hard chrome.
To apply solvent to patches or brushes, use a hobby paint and solvent transfer bulb. This is a plastic dropper available from most hobby and lab supply houses.
NEVER dip bronze bore brushes in the bottle, that contaminates fast.
If you want to soak parts, pour the solvent in another bottle, then pitch it when it no longer works.
10/3/2009 10:11:43 AM
Thanks for all the input.
What I gathered from your posts is that the bore cleaner should be tossed as it is most likely contaminated from me dipping brushes and patches into it. Also, the barrel was most likely nickel plated and the Shooter's Choice has eaten away that plating.
Has this damaged the structural integrity of the barrel? Is it simply an appearance issue? Should I refrain from shooting the gun? Where do I go from here?
What I gathered from your posts is that the bore cleaner should be tossed as it is most likely contaminated from me dipping brushes and patches into it. Also, the barrel was most likely nickel plated and the Shooter's Choice has eaten away that plating.
Has this damaged the structural integrity of the barrel? Is it simply an appearance issue? Should I refrain from shooting the gun? Where do I go from here?
10/3/2009 2:38:45 PM
Again, Kahr did NOT nickel plate barrels or other parts.
They used industrial hard chrome, which is a world of difference from nickel.
Also remember, that section of the barrel is the area most worn during shooting, and what you may be seeing is nothing more than friction wear of the hard chrome.
I'd get some new solvent and clean the outside of the barrel again.
If that doesn't remove it, buy a metal polish like Mother's Mag and give the outside a GENTLE polish with a rag and polish. Polish too hard and you can thin or damage even hard chrome.
If that doesn't do it and it just bugs you, contact Kahr. Likely they'd have you send the barrel in for re-plating.
They used industrial hard chrome, which is a world of difference from nickel.
Also remember, that section of the barrel is the area most worn during shooting, and what you may be seeing is nothing more than friction wear of the hard chrome.
I'd get some new solvent and clean the outside of the barrel again.
If that doesn't remove it, buy a metal polish like Mother's Mag and give the outside a GENTLE polish with a rag and polish. Polish too hard and you can thin or damage even hard chrome.
If that doesn't do it and it just bugs you, contact Kahr. Likely they'd have you send the barrel in for re-plating.
10/5/2009 12:04:51 AM
Originally Posted By dfariswheel:
Again, Kahr did NOT nickel plate barrels or other parts.
They used industrial hard chrome, which is a world of difference from nickel.
Also remember, that section of the barrel is the area most worn during shooting, and what you may be seeing is nothing more than friction wear of the hard chrome.
I'd get some new solvent and clean the outside of the barrel again.
If that doesn't remove it, buy a metal polish like Mother's Mag and give the outside a GENTLE polish with a rag and polish. Polish too hard and you can thin or damage even hard chrome.
If that doesn't do it and it just bugs you, contact Kahr. Likely they'd have you send the barrel in for re-plating.
Again, Kahr did NOT nickel plate barrels or other parts.
They used industrial hard chrome, which is a world of difference from nickel.
Also remember, that section of the barrel is the area most worn during shooting, and what you may be seeing is nothing more than friction wear of the hard chrome.
I'd get some new solvent and clean the outside of the barrel again.
If that doesn't remove it, buy a metal polish like Mother's Mag and give the outside a GENTLE polish with a rag and polish. Polish too hard and you can thin or damage even hard chrome.
If that doesn't do it and it just bugs you, contact Kahr. Likely they'd have you send the barrel in for re-plating.
What he said.. hard chrome has nothing to do with nickel/copper. I'm still wondering if there isn't some porosity/gaps to even hard chrome bonded to the steel that allows liquids through that could discolor the carbon steel underneath, but my thoughts are based merely on some light internet reading and not on experience. Guess I could try dunking my hard chrome 1911 frame in something caustic for a few hours. Hmm.. or not. Thanks to the OP. Learned some new stuff.
10/5/2009 10:12:03 PM
Well, I talked to Shooter's Choice again today and things are about cleared up. Some metal polish removed about 98% of the staining, but if you try to look for it, you can still barely make it out. The bore does not appear to be changed in any way, nor was it during any point of this whole issue. Final answer seems to be in line with what was speculated by you guys. The fouling that remained in the cleaner as a result of dunking barrels and brushes was what stained the barrel. In their opinion, there was no chemical reaction of any sort or removal of the hard chrome plating that took place.
I think I will try to follow up with Kahr and see what they say, just to be sure. Shooter's Choice did contact Kahr and they started discussing the situation, but without pictures or the actual barrel, Kahr did not have much to go on I suppose.
So, thanks for the input everyone. It appears that everything is taken care of and my P9 is good to go again.
I think I will try to follow up with Kahr and see what they say, just to be sure. Shooter's Choice did contact Kahr and they started discussing the situation, but without pictures or the actual barrel, Kahr did not have much to go on I suppose.
So, thanks for the input everyone. It appears that everything is taken care of and my P9 is good to go again.
10/6/2009 7:44:34 AM
Yes and Clean too
2/5/2010 2:02:21 PM
I found out something:
Bore cleaners are for the BORE only!
Any other use could ruin your plating, bluing stainless, etc.
A "powder solvent" is OK anywhere.
Remington Bore Cleaner states to NOT to allow it into your action: It uses "earth" as an abrasive.
Same goes for IOSSO. "Bore cleaner"
Hoppe's #9 is a solvent for powder (and lead)
Sweet's is a "bore cleaner" should ONLY be used in the bore- nowhere else!
I used a drop of Iosso on the end of my "Midnite Magic" S&W 686 barrel:
it "lightened" the area as if I "wore away" some of the finish.
You can't tell unless you look closely, but enough to teach me a lesson....
Keep bore cleaners IN the bore.
Oil, CLP anywhere, except painted surfaces like the slides on most SIG-Sauer Pistols.....
Bore cleaners are for the BORE only!
Any other use could ruin your plating, bluing stainless, etc.
A "powder solvent" is OK anywhere.
Remington Bore Cleaner states to NOT to allow it into your action: It uses "earth" as an abrasive.
Same goes for IOSSO. "Bore cleaner"
Hoppe's #9 is a solvent for powder (and lead)
Sweet's is a "bore cleaner" should ONLY be used in the bore- nowhere else!
I used a drop of Iosso on the end of my "Midnite Magic" S&W 686 barrel:
it "lightened" the area as if I "wore away" some of the finish.
You can't tell unless you look closely, but enough to teach me a lesson....
Keep bore cleaners IN the bore.
Oil, CLP anywhere, except painted surfaces like the slides on most SIG-Sauer Pistols.....
