Archived Posts » 60,595,333
9mm NATO in a Walther P38/P1
3/4/2011 12:57:39 AM
Is the white box Winchester 124 gr. 9mmx19 FMJ (marked '9mm NATO' on the box) too powerful a load for P38/P1 pistols?
3/4/2011 12:34:22 PM
No. Germans ran NATO spec ammo thru their's. You'll be fine.
3/4/2011 7:44:54 PM
Yes, that's what I've heard - but I've also seen a bunch of admonitions about not running 'hot' ammo thru these and what is 9mm NATO if not hot ammo?
3/4/2011 10:54:38 PM
"Hot" ammo means +P or even +P+ ammo or non-standard load hollow point defense ammo, or someone's reloads.
Also, don't shoot heavier bullets, and don't install any "extra-power" recoil springs.
Hot ammo and extra-power recoil springs can crack or break slides, frames, and locking blocks.
The ammo can crack parts from excess recoil, the extra-power springs can literally hammer the front of the frame off when the slide slams shuts.
Also, don't shoot heavier bullets, and don't install any "extra-power" recoil springs.
Hot ammo and extra-power recoil springs can crack or break slides, frames, and locking blocks.
The ammo can crack parts from excess recoil, the extra-power springs can literally hammer the front of the frame off when the slide slams shuts.
3/5/2011 3:04:42 AM
Thank you for clarifying this.
3/8/2011 12:00:16 AM
They will shoot it but it is very hard on post war aluminium framed P-38/P1's.
Most people havn't shot alot of M882 thru them but I have and the arsenal fresh refurb P1 didn't last past 600 rds before the liner walked out and the frame cracked....
Most people havn't shot alot of M882 thru them but I have and the arsenal fresh refurb P1 didn't last past 600 rds before the liner walked out and the frame cracked....
3/31/2011 6:13:50 AM
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
4/1/2011 7:40:53 PM
How can you tell which generation you have? I have one with the hex pin and it was made in the 80's some time.
6/23/2011 6:07:19 PM
I know this thread is almost 3 months old, but just this afternoon a P1 came home with me. It has the hexagonal pin as described. I bet it also has the slide mentioned, because it seems wider than the old P38s I remember.
It is marked 7/81. I am impressed by the sights, even my 55 year old eyes can see them.
Normally, I like Gov't models and their clones. I was seduced by the dark side when this one became available.
It probably feels a little odd surrounded by my Colts. I will place it next to my SIG, since that is its closest relation in my arsenal.
It is marked 7/81. I am impressed by the sights, even my 55 year old eyes can see them.
Normally, I like Gov't models and their clones. I was seduced by the dark side when this one became available.
It probably feels a little odd surrounded by my Colts. I will place it next to my SIG, since that is its closest relation in my arsenal.
6/23/2011 6:20:54 PM
The very helpful folks at the P 38 & PP-PPK Collector Forums stand by the recommendation of only using standard pressure 115 gr. ball ammo in P38s and P1s of any vintage.
They like WWB, I have put Federal Champion through mine without issue.
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
They like WWB, I have put Federal Champion through mine without issue.
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
6/23/2011 6:52:09 PM
I just fired a few shots, some WW white box, as recommended. Seems pretty accurate. Its hard for me to get used to cases ejecting to the left, however.
Ejection wasn't very brisk.
My visit to the dark side may be of short duration. Still, its a nice pistol.
Ejection wasn't very brisk.
My visit to the dark side may be of short duration. Still, its a nice pistol.
6/24/2011 12:53:38 PM
I shoot a lot of Geco/RWS German/Swiss 9mm 124 grasin full metal jacket through all my 9mm pistols including the Walther P1 and the P5 I used to own.
I also shoot Winchester and Federal "NATO" 124 FMJ through the same guns when I can get it.
Contrary to all the crap one reads on the internet about "NATO" being some kind of super powered wonder round, it isn't any hotter than the Geco/RWS European ammunition.
Fact is most US made 9mm is a bit underpowered by 9mm Parabellum standards and Winchester White Box stands out anymore as some serious crap of the crap ammo.
Bear in mind, the German Service Life Requirement is but 10,000 rounds before rebuild.
This requirement was touted as something amazing and unheard of when it was used in advertising in the mid to late 1970s.
Today, a ten case service life handgun is considered something of a cheapo with Glocks, Sigs, and Berettas going an easy 40-50,000 rounds before breakdown.
I also shoot Winchester and Federal "NATO" 124 FMJ through the same guns when I can get it.
Contrary to all the crap one reads on the internet about "NATO" being some kind of super powered wonder round, it isn't any hotter than the Geco/RWS European ammunition.
Fact is most US made 9mm is a bit underpowered by 9mm Parabellum standards and Winchester White Box stands out anymore as some serious crap of the crap ammo.
Bear in mind, the German Service Life Requirement is but 10,000 rounds before rebuild.
This requirement was touted as something amazing and unheard of when it was used in advertising in the mid to late 1970s.
Today, a ten case service life handgun is considered something of a cheapo with Glocks, Sigs, and Berettas going an easy 40-50,000 rounds before breakdown.
6/24/2011 5:35:02 PM
I wondered about the pansy loads. White box just barely broke 1100 FPS when I clocked it in the late 80s, and that was from a 5" Gov't model barrel.
I fired a few 147 grain loads, and got sluggish ejection there also. Some people seem to get upset by the slightly heavier bullets. While this can indeed affect slide velocity, it is not guaranteed to do so. I don't have any commercial +p to shoot in my P1, and only found half a box of NATO Winchester 124 grain. I admit that I am not an expert, but I always thought the Germans preferred the 124, (8 gram), bullets over the lighterr 115.
To be honest, I bought it because the price was right, and it reminded me of the Man From Uncle. Its full size, but still, that is what it reminds me of. Oh! How things have changed since the 60s!
I fired a few 147 grain loads, and got sluggish ejection there also. Some people seem to get upset by the slightly heavier bullets. While this can indeed affect slide velocity, it is not guaranteed to do so. I don't have any commercial +p to shoot in my P1, and only found half a box of NATO Winchester 124 grain. I admit that I am not an expert, but I always thought the Germans preferred the 124, (8 gram), bullets over the lighterr 115.
To be honest, I bought it because the price was right, and it reminded me of the Man From Uncle. Its full size, but still, that is what it reminds me of. Oh! How things have changed since the 60s!
6/24/2011 6:16:22 PM
Originally Posted By SvenW:
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
It's always nice to hear from our international members! Thanks. That was a very informative post.
6/24/2011 10:36:51 PM
Originally Posted By SvenW:
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
+1... I was told that the P1 had a barrel life of 500 rounds. If I owned one, it would be as a piece of history a/k/a safe queen. I woudn't shoot it all that much.
6/30/2011 3:02:54 AM
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
Sorry but you are wrong,
Since 1908 the military and police 9x19 rounds in Germany have a 124gr bullet, except the Pistolenpatrone 08 mE f.e. (mE = with iron core, during WWII). And of course the P1 was designed for the 9x19 FMJ 124gr following NATO-STANAG.
This round was used by the Bundeswehr and all (West-) German/Berlin law enforcement agencies.
Is the 9mm NATO a "hot round"? - Absolutely not!
The normal NATO-STANAG round is/was used by the mentioned German agencies in pistols and submachine guns. All of these arms are proofed by the civilian proof houses or the two proof houses of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior. ALL of these proof houses had to follow the German law of proofing of firearms. And this law follows the standards of the C.I.P.
So it is impossible that the NATO round is hotter loaded than it's civilian counterpart.
But keep in mind:
- Differences in pressure are the result of the different measurement methods of C.I.P. and SAAMI.
- The British forces used a much hotter round for one of their submachine guns. In the late eighties the West-Berlin police bought a large batch of "cheap" 9x19 from Hirtenberger, Austria. Unfortunately these rounds were made for the Brits. They brake some of our P6 roll pins, but no-one gets hurt.
I don't wonder if these rounds were the cause of the urban legend of the hotter 9mm NATO, but maybe the US forces uses a hotter loaded round too?
6/30/2011 8:48:39 AM
Originally Posted By SvenW:
Sorry but you are wrong,
Since 1908 the military and police 9x19 rounds in Germany have a 124gr bullet, except the Pistolenpatrone 08 mE f.e. (mE = with iron core, during WWII). And of course the P1 was designed for the 9x19 FMJ 124gr following NATO-STANAG.
This round was used by the Bundeswehr and all (West-) German/Berlin law enforcement agencies.
Is the 9mm NATO a "hot round"? - Absolutely not!
The normal NATO-STANAG round is/was used by the mentioned German agencies in pistols and submachine guns. All of these arms are proofed by the civilian proof houses or the two proof houses of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior. ALL of these proof houses had to follow the German law of proofing of firearms. And this law follows the standards of the C.I.P.
So it is impossible that the NATO round is hotter loaded than it's civilian counterpart.
But keep in mind:
- Differences in pressure are the result of the different measurement methods of C.I.P. and SAAMI.
- The British forces used a much hotter round for one of their submachine guns. In the late eighties the West-Berlin police bought a large batch of "cheap" 9x19 from Hirtenberger, Austria. Unfortunately these rounds were made for the Brits. They brake some of our P6 roll pins, but no-one gets hurt.
I don't wonder if these rounds were the cause of the urban legend of the hotter 9mm NATO, but maybe the US forces uses a hotter loaded round too?
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
Sorry but you are wrong,
Since 1908 the military and police 9x19 rounds in Germany have a 124gr bullet, except the Pistolenpatrone 08 mE f.e. (mE = with iron core, during WWII). And of course the P1 was designed for the 9x19 FMJ 124gr following NATO-STANAG.
This round was used by the Bundeswehr and all (West-) German/Berlin law enforcement agencies.
Is the 9mm NATO a "hot round"? - Absolutely not!
The normal NATO-STANAG round is/was used by the mentioned German agencies in pistols and submachine guns. All of these arms are proofed by the civilian proof houses or the two proof houses of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior. ALL of these proof houses had to follow the German law of proofing of firearms. And this law follows the standards of the C.I.P.
So it is impossible that the NATO round is hotter loaded than it's civilian counterpart.
But keep in mind:
- Differences in pressure are the result of the different measurement methods of C.I.P. and SAAMI.
- The British forces used a much hotter round for one of their submachine guns. In the late eighties the West-Berlin police bought a large batch of "cheap" 9x19 from Hirtenberger, Austria. Unfortunately these rounds were made for the Brits. They brake some of our P6 roll pins, but no-one gets hurt.
I don't wonder if these rounds were the cause of the urban legend of the hotter 9mm NATO, but maybe the US forces uses a hotter loaded round too?
Sven, US NATO is NATO, in dimensions, pressures, velocities and performance.
MOST Amerivcan commercial ammunition is neutered to around 75-80% of the European standards for 9mm performance.
There are some hot rounds available but they are very expensive compared to blaster ammo and few people use a lot of it for practice.
7/3/2011 11:45:06 PM
I have a World War 2 P-38 that was made by Spreewerke.
Many years ago, I used Czech Sellier & Bellot ammo in the gun. After a few magazines of ammo, the extractor went flying out of the gun. I think that standard pressure loads are probably best for the P-38. I mostly use my own handloads.
Fluffy
7/4/2011 3:06:05 PM
Originally Posted By SvenW:
Sorry but you are wrong,
Since 1908 the military and police 9x19 rounds in Germany have a 124gr bullet, except the Pistolenpatrone 08 mE f.e. (mE = with iron core, during WWII). And of course the P1 was designed for the 9x19 FMJ 124gr following NATO-STANAG.
This round was used by the Bundeswehr and all (West-) German/Berlin law enforcement agencies.
Is the 9mm NATO a "hot round"? - Absolutely not!
The normal NATO-STANAG round is/was used by the mentioned German agencies in pistols and submachine guns. All of these arms are proofed by the civilian proof houses or the two proof houses of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior. ALL of these proof houses had to follow the German law of proofing of firearms. And this law follows the standards of the C.I.P.
So it is impossible that the NATO round is hotter loaded than it's civilian counterpart.
But keep in mind:
- Differences in pressure are the result of the different measurement methods of C.I.P. and SAAMI.
- The British forces used a much hotter round for one of their submachine guns. In the late eighties the West-Berlin police bought a large batch of "cheap" 9x19 from Hirtenberger, Austria. Unfortunately these rounds were made for the Brits. They brake some of our P6 roll pins, but no-one gets hurt.
I don't wonder if these rounds were the cause of the urban legend of the hotter 9mm NATO, but maybe the US forces uses a hotter loaded round too
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
...
Remember that when this pistol was designed, 115gr ball was the military loading and is what the pistol was meant to fire.
Sorry but you are wrong,
Since 1908 the military and police 9x19 rounds in Germany have a 124gr bullet, except the Pistolenpatrone 08 mE f.e. (mE = with iron core, during WWII). And of course the P1 was designed for the 9x19 FMJ 124gr following NATO-STANAG.
This round was used by the Bundeswehr and all (West-) German/Berlin law enforcement agencies.
Is the 9mm NATO a "hot round"? - Absolutely not!
The normal NATO-STANAG round is/was used by the mentioned German agencies in pistols and submachine guns. All of these arms are proofed by the civilian proof houses or the two proof houses of the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry of the Interior. ALL of these proof houses had to follow the German law of proofing of firearms. And this law follows the standards of the C.I.P.
So it is impossible that the NATO round is hotter loaded than it's civilian counterpart.
But keep in mind:
- Differences in pressure are the result of the different measurement methods of C.I.P. and SAAMI.
- The British forces used a much hotter round for one of their submachine guns. In the late eighties the West-Berlin police bought a large batch of "cheap" 9x19 from Hirtenberger, Austria. Unfortunately these rounds were made for the Brits. They brake some of our P6 roll pins, but no-one gets hurt.
I don't wonder if these rounds were the cause of the urban legend of the hotter 9mm NATO, but maybe the US forces uses a hotter loaded round too
I stand corrected, thank you sir for the info.
7/20/2011 2:15:04 PM
I used to "learn 'em young recruits" how to shoot those P1s and took a few state trophies home with them. I got a P1 with the updates here and it lasts well.
The older guns without the reinforcements weren't designed past 5,000 rounds, they were just to be carried comfortably but the Baader-Meinhoff terrorist threat changed thee practicing routine.
The German military ammo of its time ( my time ) was also used in the UZI. If you know guns, you know what I mean. I also want to add that in respect to "hotter" loads, that German military 9mm, and also most loads from Fiocchi, are much hotter than Remingtons 9mm that come in 250 packs. While the maximum pressure of a round is limited by a ceiling, there is no bottom.
Before the P5, P6, and PSP became the official police guns after a round of trials, the P1 had been re- inforced and was still used in the military for a long time. There are still a few in some reserve units today and I can still get the same accuracy from the P1 as from the P8.
The older guns without the reinforcements weren't designed past 5,000 rounds, they were just to be carried comfortably but the Baader-Meinhoff terrorist threat changed thee practicing routine.
The German military ammo of its time ( my time ) was also used in the UZI. If you know guns, you know what I mean. I also want to add that in respect to "hotter" loads, that German military 9mm, and also most loads from Fiocchi, are much hotter than Remingtons 9mm that come in 250 packs. While the maximum pressure of a round is limited by a ceiling, there is no bottom.
Before the P5, P6, and PSP became the official police guns after a round of trials, the P1 had been re- inforced and was still used in the military for a long time. There are still a few in some reserve units today and I can still get the same accuracy from the P1 as from the P8.
8/19/2011 11:49:12 AM
Originally Posted By Andyd:
I used to "learn 'em young recruits" how to shoot those P1s and took a few state trophies home with them. I got a P1 with the updates here and it lasts well.
The older guns without the reinforcements weren't designed past 5,000 rounds, they were just to be carried comfortably but the Baader-Meinhoff terrorist threat changed thee practicing routine.
The German military ammo of its time ( my time ) was also used in the UZI. If you know guns, you know what I mean. I also want to add that in respect to "hotter" loads, that German military 9mm, and also most loads from Fiocchi, are much hotter than Remingtons 9mm that come in 250 packs. While the maximum pressure of a round is limited by a ceiling, there is no bottom.
Before the P5, P6, and PSP became the official police guns after a round of trials, the P1 had been re- inforced and was still used in the military for a long time. There are still a few in some reserve units today and I can still get the same accuracy from the P1 as from the P8.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/P1.jpg
I used to "learn 'em young recruits" how to shoot those P1s and took a few state trophies home with them. I got a P1 with the updates here and it lasts well.
The older guns without the reinforcements weren't designed past 5,000 rounds, they were just to be carried comfortably but the Baader-Meinhoff terrorist threat changed thee practicing routine.
The German military ammo of its time ( my time ) was also used in the UZI. If you know guns, you know what I mean. I also want to add that in respect to "hotter" loads, that German military 9mm, and also most loads from Fiocchi, are much hotter than Remingtons 9mm that come in 250 packs. While the maximum pressure of a round is limited by a ceiling, there is no bottom.
Before the P5, P6, and PSP became the official police guns after a round of trials, the P1 had been re- inforced and was still used in the military for a long time. There are still a few in some reserve units today and I can still get the same accuracy from the P1 as from the P8.
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/P1.jpg
As a functional issue, the P5 I have is hands down the most accurate, stock semi-auto pistol I've ever seen.
8/28/2011 11:30:47 PM
Could someone please post some info about identifying the stronger pistols? What is this hex pin insert?
9/8/2011 3:00:09 AM
Originally Posted By SvenW:
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
All steel P38 - no problem.
Aluminum alloy framed P1 is an other thing.
The first generation was designed for the STANAG 9x19mm (124 gr FMJ), but just as a service pistol for self defense for the police and for army MG-gunners f.e., specified for shooting some hundreds of rounds and then forget about it.
But at some time the pistol training of the German police was intensified after the confrontations with the left terrorists (Baader-Meinhoff/RAF) in the seventies. So we get new designed pistols (P5, P6, P7).
And the Bundeswehr prefer to let the recruits shoot only a couple (any time the same ones) of P1 from the armorer at the range.
What happens? Right, at first the frames cracked, later the slides.
If you wanna buy a P1 as a shooter it has to be one of the second generation with the enforced frame (hexpin insert made of steel), better the third generation with the beefed up slide too.
I have a P1 on layaway that has the three dot sights. I've never owned one before. How does one go about checking for the above updates? Thank you very much.
9/8/2011 8:21:02 AM
Stolen from http://www.ammoman.com: This one is OK.
Hexpin - If you look at the frame you see the hexpin right near the disassembling lever (the lever on the front end of the frame.
Beefed up slide - simply said the checkering for better grip if you pull the slide is not only behind but also before the safety lever.
This is the early version I would stay away from:
Hexpin - If you look at the frame you see the hexpin right near the disassembling lever (the lever on the front end of the frame.
Beefed up slide - simply said the checkering for better grip if you pull the slide is not only behind but also before the safety lever.
This is the early version I would stay away from:
9/8/2011 8:32:55 AM
Sweet, that means mine is a 3rd gen.
9/8/2011 6:22:32 PM
Mine has the beefed up slide but it doesn't have the hex pin.
9/10/2011 2:46:42 PM
It looks like I have one of the older ones on layaway. Where does the frame crack, and where does the slide crack? I need to check that out before I get it out of layaway. Also what are the chances of crackage if I only shoot about 50 rds. about 4 times per year? Thanks again.
9/10/2011 3:04:49 PM
If you shoot 115gr. FMJ from an American manufacturer your odds of beating the thing up are pretty low.
Just get standard pressure stuff. Winchester White Box, or bottom feeder Federal Champion work just fine.
Just get standard pressure stuff. Winchester White Box, or bottom feeder Federal Champion work just fine.
10/9/2011 12:28:58 AM
Originally Posted By VietVet7:
It looks like I have one of the older ones on layaway. Where does the frame crack, and where does the slide crack? I need to check that out before I get it out of layaway. Also what are the chances of crackage if I only shoot about 50 rds. about 4 times per year? Thanks again.
It looks like I have one of the older ones on layaway. Where does the frame crack, and where does the slide crack? I need to check that out before I get it out of layaway. Also what are the chances of crackage if I only shoot about 50 rds. about 4 times per year? Thanks again.
Slides crack at locking block recesses. Frames are less prone to cracking but the ones I have seen have been in the weak area on right side from the hex pin to the trigger bar cutout and even this crack won't make the frame un-usable.
