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Rust
5/8/2012 12:22:43 PM
5/8/2012 12:58:21 PM
Sounds like you're not doing it right, or enough. Hot water will do a better job at dissolving the salts, plus it dries faster. Rinse liberally, not just a quick shot. Skip the Windex. Coat the bore with some sort of rust-preventative before the rifle is put away, and check it a couple days later. I use G96 and have never had a problem, even with thousands of rounds of corrosive ammo shot through different rifles. Shooting non-corrosively-primed ammo after the corrosive stuff will help, but it's not going to have a huge impact getting it out, and the rifle still needs to cleaned in the manner described above.
5/8/2012 3:34:13 PM
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
Personally, I am a fan of black powder solvents as they tend to have ample water and ammonia to break down any corrosive salts as well as a rust inhibitor to help offset the potential for rust due to the water that is in the mix. In my experience, black powder solvents due a great job on barrels that have been fired with soviet block corrosive primed ammunition.
So...my preferences are:
1) black powder solvent in a more or less normal wet patch, brush, wet and dry patches format
2) Normal cleaning with bore solvent with a few more wet patches than normal ( and a military bore cleaner with a bit more ammonia is a plus), and
3) flushing the barrel and gas system with hot water, scrubbing with a few wet patches wetted with dish soapy water, followed by a hot water rinse and dry patches to dry it.
In all cases, I finish with an oiled (CLP) patch through the bore and (gasp) gas system as an additional rust preventative, and I'll follow up a day or two later to run another CLP'd patch through the bore to check for any flash rust, remove any salts leaching out of the steel and re-oil the metal in the bore and gas system. If I detect any rust, I'll re-clean the bore, but I can't honestly recall the last time I needed to do that.
Personally, I am a fan of black powder solvents as they tend to have ample water and ammonia to break down any corrosive salts as well as a rust inhibitor to help offset the potential for rust due to the water that is in the mix. In my experience, black powder solvents due a great job on barrels that have been fired with soviet block corrosive primed ammunition.
So...my preferences are:
1) black powder solvent in a more or less normal wet patch, brush, wet and dry patches format
2) Normal cleaning with bore solvent with a few more wet patches than normal ( and a military bore cleaner with a bit more ammonia is a plus), and
3) flushing the barrel and gas system with hot water, scrubbing with a few wet patches wetted with dish soapy water, followed by a hot water rinse and dry patches to dry it.
In all cases, I finish with an oiled (CLP) patch through the bore and (gasp) gas system as an additional rust preventative, and I'll follow up a day or two later to run another CLP'd patch through the bore to check for any flash rust, remove any salts leaching out of the steel and re-oil the metal in the bore and gas system. If I detect any rust, I'll re-clean the bore, but I can't honestly recall the last time I needed to do that.
5/8/2012 4:50:19 PM
A mixture of Ballistol and water is popular with the AK crowd for corrosive ammo.
5/8/2012 5:32:58 PM
Is this a joke?
5/8/2012 6:15:03 PM
Originally Posted By Thermionix:
Is this a joke?
Is this a joke?
No kidding
5/8/2012 6:46:15 PM
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
Personally, I am a fan of black powder solvents as they tend to have ample water and ammonia to break down any corrosive salts as well as a rust inhibitor to help offset the potential for rust due to the water that is in the mix. In my experience, black powder solvents due a great job on barrels that have been fired with soviet block corrosive primed ammunition.
So...my preferences are:
1) black powder solvent in a more or less normal wet patch, brush, wet and dry patches format
2) Normal cleaning with bore solvent with a few more wet patches than normal ( and a military bore cleaner with a bit more ammonia is a plus), and
3) flushing the barrel and gas system with hot water, scrubbing with a few wet patches wetted with dish soapy water, followed by a hot water rinse and dry patches to dry it.
In all cases, I finish with an oiled (CLP) patch through the bore and (gasp) gas system as an additional rust preventative, and I'll follow up a day or two later to run another CLP'd patch through the bore to check for any flash rust, remove any salts leaching out of the steel and re-oil the metal in the bore and gas system. If I detect any rust, I'll re-clean the bore, but I can't honestly recall the last time I needed to do that.
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
Personally, I am a fan of black powder solvents as they tend to have ample water and ammonia to break down any corrosive salts as well as a rust inhibitor to help offset the potential for rust due to the water that is in the mix. In my experience, black powder solvents due a great job on barrels that have been fired with soviet block corrosive primed ammunition.
So...my preferences are:
1) black powder solvent in a more or less normal wet patch, brush, wet and dry patches format
2) Normal cleaning with bore solvent with a few more wet patches than normal ( and a military bore cleaner with a bit more ammonia is a plus), and
3) flushing the barrel and gas system with hot water, scrubbing with a few wet patches wetted with dish soapy water, followed by a hot water rinse and dry patches to dry it.
In all cases, I finish with an oiled (CLP) patch through the bore and (gasp) gas system as an additional rust preventative, and I'll follow up a day or two later to run another CLP'd patch through the bore to check for any flash rust, remove any salts leaching out of the steel and re-oil the metal in the bore and gas system. If I detect any rust, I'll re-clean the bore, but I can't honestly recall the last time I needed to do that.
Yup. I use some stuff called Black Off, a black powder solvent/cleaner. Then I run an oily patch through the barrel.
I have used hot water (kitchen sick while the wife was at church). Really hot water, sprayed into the barrel, into the gas tube, into the upper/lower receiver. I used the wife's hair dryer to finish of the little bit of water that didn't evaporate and then re lubed it and put it away.
5/8/2012 8:17:05 PM
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
Actually, the corrosive salts (in this case, potassium chloride and sodium chloride) are dissolved by water, not the ammonia. Potassium and sodium salts are hydroscopic, which means they readily absorb water. This is why they accelerate corrosion. However, it also means they readily dissolve in water. Neither of these salts will dissolve in ammonia. Ammonia only serves to loosen copper fouling.
5/8/2012 9:20:06 PM
Boil a pot of water. Use a turkey baster to squirt hot water down the barrel, inside the receiver, gas tube, bolt, etc. Let parts flash dry, then clean and lube like usual.
5/8/2012 9:43:15 PM
What I've been doing with mine is when I get home from the range, I put a 4 cup measuring cup full of water in the microwave for 4 minutes. While the water is microwaving, I break the gun apart (regardless of it being my S&W 15r, or my SAR-2, or my Tantal) and then take the barreled portion, remove the hot water from the microwave and pour it into the chamber and let it run through the barrel.
Then I clean as normal, haven't had any issues yet.
Then I clean as normal, haven't had any issues yet.
5/9/2012 7:35:08 AM
Originally Posted By DRich:
Actually, the corrosive salts (in this case, potassium chloride and sodium chloride) are dissolved by water, not the ammonia. Potassium and sodium salts are hydroscopic, which means they readily absorb water. This is why they accelerate corrosion. However, it also means they readily dissolve in water. Neither of these salts will dissolve in ammonia. Ammonia only serves to loosen copper fouling.
Originally Posted By DakotaFAL:
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
In terms of bore cleaner, ammonia is what dissolves the salts in question and most bore cleaners *probably* have enough as it's used for removal of copper fouling. That said, hot soapy water is the old standby. The dish soap breaks down the cohesiveness of the water and aids cleaning as does the the "hot", however the role of the "hot" is mostly to speed drying of the steel to prevent flash rust.
Actually, the corrosive salts (in this case, potassium chloride and sodium chloride) are dissolved by water, not the ammonia. Potassium and sodium salts are hydroscopic, which means they readily absorb water. This is why they accelerate corrosion. However, it also means they readily dissolve in water. Neither of these salts will dissolve in ammonia. Ammonia only serves to loosen copper fouling.
Thank you for clearing that up. The lack of basic chemistry knowledge here (and elsewhere) can get aggravating quick.
5/9/2012 3:49:19 PM
And, firing non corrosive ammo after corrosive does NOTHING about the corrosive residue.
Firing non-corrosive ammo will simply leave a layer of fouling on top of the corrosive residue. The corrosive residue will corrode the metal UNDER the non-corrosive residue.
When a corrosive primed round is fired the primer produces a form of salt in microscopic crystals.
Everywhere the fumes make contact these crystals are deposited, and need to be removed by flushing with something that contains water.
If you use HOT water the heat will warm the metal and the water will flash dry without rusting.
You can use most anything that contains water including most black powder cleaning products, but nothing works better then hot water and nothing is cheaper then water.
Also remember that removal of the corrosive residue is just a preliminary step in cleaning an AK. The rifle still needs to be cleaned with bore solvent to remove carbon, powder, and copper fouling.
Firing non-corrosive ammo will simply leave a layer of fouling on top of the corrosive residue. The corrosive residue will corrode the metal UNDER the non-corrosive residue.
When a corrosive primed round is fired the primer produces a form of salt in microscopic crystals.
Everywhere the fumes make contact these crystals are deposited, and need to be removed by flushing with something that contains water.
If you use HOT water the heat will warm the metal and the water will flash dry without rusting.
You can use most anything that contains water including most black powder cleaning products, but nothing works better then hot water and nothing is cheaper then water.
Also remember that removal of the corrosive residue is just a preliminary step in cleaning an AK. The rifle still needs to be cleaned with bore solvent to remove carbon, powder, and copper fouling.
5/10/2012 12:30:10 AM
Thanks all for the replies. I will try it a couple more times with hot water or black power cleaning products.
5/10/2012 12:43:59 PM
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
No kidding
Originally Posted By Thermionix:
Is this a joke?
Is this a joke?
No kidding
I guess I'm not the only one who
after reading it.5/13/2012 9:18:41 AM
just use a brush with some hoppes #9 run a patch then an oily patch done.
if you aren't running something down the barrel, just pouring windex...yes you are to lazy to shoot commie ammo and should stick to commercial non-corrosive ammo.
if you aren't running something down the barrel, just pouring windex...yes you are to lazy to shoot commie ammo and should stick to commercial non-corrosive ammo.
5/13/2012 3:04:56 PM
OP Request
