Archived Posts » 60,515,685
SS109 pulls outshot my Barnes tsx loads, ideas?
5/4/2012 5:41:03 PM
Just shot my first reloads today and I was surprised. My hitech pulled and re-sized ss109s outgrouped my barnes tsx 62 gns.
SS109 load - LC brass, 26 gn varget, seat mid can (2.245-2.250), 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp - 50 yards (3/4 group)
Barnes TSX 62, LC brass, 25.5 gn varget (their max load 102%), 2.250 seat, 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp 50 yards (1" at best group)
Thoughts?
SS109 load - LC brass, 26 gn varget, seat mid can (2.245-2.250), 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp - 50 yards (3/4 group)
Barnes TSX 62, LC brass, 25.5 gn varget (their max load 102%), 2.250 seat, 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp 50 yards (1" at best group)
Thoughts?
5/4/2012 5:59:53 PM
Are you saying the 62 TSX shot best at 25.5, or is that the only weight you tried?
My best group with Varget and that bullet was 24.6 grn. The group was nothing to brag about.
My best group with that bullet has been with 26.1 gr of CFE223. Still a bit over MOA.
I have also had better groups with pulled FMJs. (55s, in my case) Doubt I could do that consistently, though.
5/4/2012 6:05:52 PM
Originally Posted By Scott_R:
Are you saying the 62 TSX shot best at 25.5, or is that the only weight you tried?
My best group with Varget and that bullet was 24.6 grn. The group was nothing to brag about.
My best group with that bullet has been with 26.1 gr of CFE223. Still a bit over MOA.
I have also had better groups with pulled FMJs. (55s, in my case) Doubt I could do that consistently, though.
Ran the Tsx at 23.5, 24.0, 24.5, 25.0, and 25.5 The 25.5 was the only thing acceptable, everything else opened up to 1.5" ish.
Ran the SS109 at 24.0, 24.5, 25.0, 25.5, and 26.0 and the 26 grouped the best at 3/4"
5/4/2012 11:18:07 PM
fantastic info here.
so many variable,s.
imo, its the projectile, seeing as how you did your homework on the charge weight.
Maybe the solid steel core at the frt of the 109 has something to do with it?.....I dunno but you found yourself a pretty darn good way to get some semi good accuracy out of pull,d pills.
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight.
Ive muck,d up many a steel target thanks to those 109,s.......
so many variable,s.
imo, its the projectile, seeing as how you did your homework on the charge weight.
Maybe the solid steel core at the frt of the 109 has something to do with it?.....I dunno but you found yourself a pretty darn good way to get some semi good accuracy out of pull,d pills.
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight.
Ive muck,d up many a steel target thanks to those 109,s.......
5/4/2012 11:28:58 PM
Seating depth, barrel, shooter and bullet length are factors that come to mind.
You're using a long bullet that probably has one of them geo-orbital, tailspin factors that need distance to level out.
I dare not use the word, "stability" so's I made up a new fangled, just thought up term to describe bullet flight.
You're using a long bullet that probably has one of them geo-orbital, tailspin factors that need distance to level out.
I dare not use the word, "stability" so's I made up a new fangled, just thought up term to describe bullet flight.
5/4/2012 11:32:22 PM
Originally Posted By eddiesar15:
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight. ,s.
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight. ,s.
I've done the same. I was surprised to find out that the steel core only weighed 10 grains.
5/4/2012 11:33:01 PM
Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
Just shot my first reloads today and I was surprised. My hitech pulled and re-sized ss109s outgrouped my barnes tsx 62 gns.
SS109 load - LC brass, 26 gn varget, seat mid can (2.245-2.250), 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp - 50 yards (3/4 group)
Barnes TSX 62, LC brass, 25.5 gn varget (their max load 102%), 2.250 seat, 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp 50 yards (1" at best group)
Thoughts?
Just shot my first reloads today and I was surprised. My hitech pulled and re-sized ss109s outgrouped my barnes tsx 62 gns.
SS109 load - LC brass, 26 gn varget, seat mid can (2.245-2.250), 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp - 50 yards (3/4 group)
Barnes TSX 62, LC brass, 25.5 gn varget (their max load 102%), 2.250 seat, 1.750 trim, wsr primer, no crimp 50 yards (1" at best group)
Thoughts?
I would try other powders with the TSX.
Re-15, IMR8208 XBR, CFE 223, Tac is what I would try.
There are other powders besides Varget.
5/5/2012 7:33:24 AM
Originally Posted By 1911smith:
Seating depth, barrel, shooter and bullet length are factors that come to mind.
You're using a long bullet that probably has one of them geo-orbital, tailspin factors that need distance to level out.
I dare not use the word, "stability" so's I made up a new fangled, just thought up term to describe bullet flight.
Seating depth, barrel, shooter and bullet length are factors that come to mind.
You're using a long bullet that probably has one of them geo-orbital, tailspin factors that need distance to level out.
I dare not use the word, "stability" so's I made up a new fangled, just thought up term to describe bullet flight.
This occurred to me as a possible factor, but I've never tried hanging a target at 200+ yards to see if it got better. Maybe I should try that next time.
I'm no ballistics expert, but I did put Brian Litz's book on my Christmas wishlist.... 
ETA: With regard to seating depth: I tried going long [ Mag length ], and then after speaking to Barnes over the phone one day, they commented that their bullets generally shoot better seated DEEPER. The discussion at the time was the 70TSX, so I don't have a number for the 62. The seating depth for the 70 they recommended was 2.200 OAL.
For the record, they also recommend H335, which gave me no better results. Again, CFE223 has been the best for me so far.
I'm using a 1:8 twist.
OP: What twist rate are you shooting?
5/5/2012 10:14:25 AM
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
5/5/2012 10:44:10 AM
Is the TSX bullet longer than the SS109? If so, your problem might be the the twist in your rifle barrel is too slow to stabilize the longer bullet.
5/5/2012 10:54:14 AM
The tsx are on the high side .030" longer than the re-sized pulls
5/5/2012 11:19:48 AM
And finally, some guns just don't like some bullets.
Good luck as you continue to play.
Don't look at it as defeat, think of all the fun you get to have tweaking and coming up with some other combos for your rifle.
Good luck as you continue to play.
Don't look at it as defeat, think of all the fun you get to have tweaking and coming up with some other combos for your rifle.
5/5/2012 1:03:31 PM
Originally Posted By Kevin_Jensen:
I've done the same. I was surprised to find out that the steel core only weighed 10 grains.
Originally Posted By eddiesar15:
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight. ,s.
I let curiosity get the better of me and I cut a 109 in half because I wanted to see the guts of the projectile for myself. The tip,s core is solid steel with the back end of it being lead for weight. ,s.
I've done the same. I was surprised to find out that the steel core only weighed 10 grains.
exactly......hard steel to boot
5/5/2012 1:06:27 PM
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
And finally, some guns just don't like some bullets.
Good luck as you continue to play.
Don't look at it as defeat, think of all the fun you get to have tweaking and coming up with some other combos for your rifle.
And finally, some guns just don't like some bullets.
Good luck as you continue to play.
Don't look at it as defeat, think of all the fun you get to have tweaking and coming up with some other combos for your rifle.
+1
5/5/2012 2:19:19 PM
Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
I shoot Barnes 62gr TTSX a lot and every box I ever bought had a sticker on it that said " Twist rate of 1in 8 or faster" on it.
5/5/2012 2:32:44 PM
Originally Posted By oldschool63:
I shoot Barnes 62gr TTSX a lot and every box I ever bought had a sticker on it that said " Twist rate of 1in 8 or faster" on it.
Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
I shoot Barnes 62gr TTSX a lot and every box I ever bought had a sticker on it that said " Twist rate of 1in 8 or faster" on it.
The polys call for a 1 in 8, the hollow points call for a 1 in 9.
6/5/2012 10:37:07 PM
ost
6/6/2012 12:10:43 PM
Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
These groups were with a 1 in 9 twist out of a mini 14. I thought about calling Barnes too, however, they show varget and tac for their loads on this bullet. I have some IMR 4064 laying around
Calling Barnes and telling them what? "I just loaded your bullets over a single type of powder shot them through a single gun and didn't get great results." Lots of people get great results with those bullets so you better just keep trying.
6/6/2012 12:21:29 PM
How do you resize the pulls? Is that necessary with pulled bullets?
6/6/2012 9:39:59 PM
Stop buying Barnes?
Some rifles don't like some bullets.
But I would try some different powders and loads before I gave up on this Barnes bullet.
Check out their suggestions in the first bit of the Barnes manual about working up a good load by testing 3-5 powders in an economical and logical manner.
6/7/2012 8:18:11 AM
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
How do you resize the pulls? Is that necessary with pulled bullets?
How do you resize the pulls? Is that necessary with pulled bullets?
It's not necessary, you buy something like a die to reshape them.
OP check the diameter between the two bullets, you might also try some 2520 with magnum primers.
