Help me design a Camera/DVR system for a retail store
Hello
I am in the process of building a new retail store. This is a ground-up build.
I would like some suggestions from those with experience on what surveillance equipment to use.
So far I already have a
Toshiba IK-WB15A network camera (PTZ) and several Dell PC computers so I could piece together a PC based DVR if that is advisable. I am not against a DVR if it will do what I want it to do.
I can most likely hard-wire all of the cameras so wireless is not a necessity.
Possible locations: inside front door, safe, watching register, watching high-value merchandise (2), watching outside doors (2), maybe others.
Here are my needs:
1. Try to stay at $1000
2. have 8+ cameras with 2 outdoors and 6+ indoors
3. Would like to be able to view cameras on internet and smartphone
4. Would like to be able to control the Toshiba PTZ camera over the internet
5. Start at 8 cameras with the ability to add other cameras later
A random thought: Can I use web-cams at the cash registers?
Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
jonblack
Lots of good info
Here
Hope this helps.
I have access to four Ganz MDC-3.6n cameras. I can them locally for $99 for four of them. I know they are not great but are they worth $25 each?
I operate a 64,000 square foot manufacturing facility and we just installed our second set of CCTV equipment last year. Our first set was put in about 5 years ago and consisted of $99 Panasonic web cameras and Panasonic software (the free version), running on a high performance Dell Precision box. The cameras were just OK for getting the overall view of a scene, but they could not be used for identification of individuals. Also, there were too many performance issues with the cheap cameras.
What you'll find on most of the Costco-style camera systems is that the detail and resolution is simply not enough to let you have clear views of people's faces unless they are only a few feet from the camera. Also, the frame rate is too slow to record fluid motion so what you wind up with is a bunch of jumpy, useless images. Also, the cheaper cameras have a horrible problem handling fluctuating light situations. For example, if you point a camera towards a door or window, you will often get washed out images. Cameras in these situations require a WDR feature, which is not offered on the Costco-style cameras. Also, forget about those low light IR illuminators beyond about 10 feet. Take any manufacturer claim on how far they work and cut it by 66% to 75% for real world functionality.
I did an incredible amount of research before we invested in our new system, and the bottom line is that if you want the type of cameras that perform like they do on Mission Impossible or CSI, you need to spend $3,000 - $4,000 PER CAMERA (includes installation & the DVR). I personally didn't have that kind of budget, so I compromised and got the best bang for the buck. I'm sad to say that even a "compromise" type of system like I got will still set you back around $1250 per camera (including installation & the DVR).
My current system is comprised of a combination of Vivotek (made in Taiwan) 1 and 2 Megapixel cameras as well as a handful of Arecont Vision (made in USA) 3MP cameras. With this setup, I have been 99%+ successful at identifying every customer who walks in the office, and I capture about 65% - 75% of license plates passing through my driveway even without at $3,000 license plate camera. I am using an ExacqVision dedicated DVR with 12TB of data storage. I have about 30 cameras and about 90 days worth of recorded footage.
I realize what I am discussing here sounds like complete overkill compared to your solution, but my point is that I previously had a solution like you discussed and I was entirely dissatisfied. If you deal with anything of high value and/or have concerns about worker's compensation and/or have concerns about being held up at gunpoint, you really NEED a better system than what you are describing.
Originally Posted By symantix:
I operate a 64,000 square foot manufacturing facility and we just installed our second set of CCTV equipment last year. Our first set was put in about 5 years ago and consisted of $99 Panasonic web cameras and Panasonic software (the free version), running on a high performance Dell Precision box. The cameras were just OK for getting the overall view of a scene, but they could not be used for identification of individuals. Also, there were too many performance issues with the cheap cameras.
What you'll find on most of the Costco-style camera systems is that the detail and resolution is simply not enough to let you have clear views of people's faces unless they are only a few feet from the camera. Also, the frame rate is too slow to record fluid motion so what you wind up with is a bunch of jumpy, useless images. Also, the cheaper cameras have a horrible problem handling fluctuating light situations. For example, if you point a camera towards a door or window, you will often get washed out images. Cameras in these situations require a WDR feature, which is not offered on the Costco-style cameras. Also, forget about those low light IR illuminators beyond about 10 feet. Take any manufacturer claim on how far they work and cut it by 66% to 75% for real world functionality.
I did an incredible amount of research before we invested in our new system, and the bottom line is that if you want the type of cameras that perform like they do on Mission Impossible or CSI, you need to spend $3,000 - $4,000 PER CAMERA (includes installation & the DVR). I personally didn't have that kind of budget, so I compromised and got the best bang for the buck. I'm sad to say that even a "compromise" type of system like I got will still set you back around $1250 per camera (including installation & the DVR).
My current system is comprised of a combination of Vivotek (made in Taiwan) 1 and 2 Megapixel cameras as well as a handful of Arecont Vision (made in USA) 3MP cameras. With this setup, I have been 99%+ successful at identifying every customer who walks in the office, and I capture about 65% - 75% of license plates passing through my driveway even without at $3,000 license plate camera. I am using an ExacqVision dedicated DVR with 12TB of data storage. I have about 30 cameras and about 90 days worth of recorded footage.
I realize what I am discussing here sounds like complete overkill compared to your solution, but my point is that I previously had a solution like you discussed and I was entirely dissatisfied. If you deal with anything of high value and/or have concerns about worker's compensation and/or have concerns about being held up at gunpoint, you really NEED a better system than what you are describing.
Read this man's post.
You're not going to get what you want for $1000. You can do the Sam's Club system-in-a-box deal, but you can get that for a couple of hundred bucks... don't spend more, because you'll find yourself replacing it in the near future, as the performance will not measure up (see above). If your budget is that low, do the best you can... but serious CCTV will cost you.
For solid megapixel IP cams, you're looking at $500+ per cam... minimum.
symantix and TheGrayMan
Thank you for your replies.
It looks like I will have to build my system one camera at a time. I will start with the Toshiba IK-WB15A network camera that I already have and will add to the system as the budget allows.
I guess what I need to figure out now is whether to go with a stand alone DVR or build a NVR system. TheGrayMan, I have read your post about using the Lenovo M55 as a base computer on which to build. I don't have a problem doing that if it will give me more flexibility.
I can buy this
Ganz DR4HL-500 DVR for $149 locally. I may couple that with the cheap Ganz cameras until I can afford something more. I know I won't be able to use my IP camera with this DVR but I may find the Ganz is fine for the money depending on how I use it. I can place those cameras over the cash register and on the safe. They would probably be good enough to ID an employee stealing from the register or safe.
Thanks again
jonblack
Originally Posted By jonblack:
symantix and TheGrayMan
Thank you for your replies.
It looks like I will have to build my system one camera at a time. I will start with the Toshiba IK-WB15A network camera that I already have and will add to the system as the budget allows.
I guess what I need to figure out now is whether to go with a stand alone DVR or build a NVR system. TheGrayMan, I have read your post about using the Lenovo M55 as a base computer on which to build. I don't have a problem doing that if it will give me more flexibility.
I can buy this
Ganz DR4HL-500 DVR for $149 locally. I may couple that with the cheap Ganz cameras until I can afford something more. I know I won't be able to use my IP camera with this DVR but I may find the Ganz is fine for the money depending on how I use it.
I can play those cameras over the cash register and on the safe. They would probably be good enough to ID an employee stealing from the register or safe.
Thanks again
jonblack
Not a bad idea... I started with analog too. Don't spend too much money on your analog system (I think you're right about where you want to be for that)... it will prevent you from being out too much money when you decide to transition to something better.
And it's perfectly acceptable to build a system piecemeal. That's how I did mine.
I went ahead and bought the el cheapo Ganz system. I got it the DVR and 4 cameras for about $260 out the door. I am going to set it up in my home workshop and play with it before I decided whether or not I will use it in the retail store.
jonblack
