AR15.Com Archives
 EMF Carbine review
rx7145  [Member]
6/12/2010 10:06:00 PM
Well I finally had some time to try out my carbine today after winning it on gun broker.

Pros:

Looks and feels like a AR.
Takes AR furniture.
Takes glock mags. (Big plus for me.)

Cons.
It's a jam-o-manic.
Mag well is very loose, so much so that if you push up on a empty mag and release the bolt it will get hung up on the mag.
No factory sights. Although Magpul flip up sights look good. For a $750 a gun I think it should have some.
No bolt hold open on a empty mag. Not a big deal to me.
Mag release is not in the normal AR spot.
No flash suppressor.

As far as the jamming they were all FTE. The spent case would get caught on the closing bolt and smash the brass. (see pic)

I need to get a AR tool to take the buffer tube off so I can clean/lube the bolt. After that I will try again. If I still have a problem (and I think i will) I'll call EMF and see what they say.



HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 1:21:54 PM
Ammo used?

Sounds like low powered ammo......was it by chance the UMC bulk packs?

Just curiuos.
rx7145  [Member]
6/13/2010 3:33:45 PM
115gr Fed from wall mart. I'll try some RWS that I also have.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 7:07:45 PM
They should have ran it....hmmm.

Maybe it needs a few hundred rounds of some hotter stuff to break it in. It shouldn't, but that would be an easy task if that is all it is.
wesmerc  [Team Member]
6/13/2010 9:55:06 PM
you need a castle nut wrench to disassemble it?
rx7145  [Member]
6/14/2010 12:15:35 AM
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
you need a castle nut wrench to disassemble it?


Yes you do. Kind of a pain.
rx7145  [Member]
6/14/2010 12:21:38 AM
Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
They should have ran it....hmmm.

Maybe it needs a few hundred rounds of some hotter stuff to break it in. It shouldn't, but that would be an easy task if that is all it is.


I have some RWS and some WWB. I'll run that after i lube it and see what happeneds.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/14/2010 8:27:34 AM
Originally Posted By rx7145:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
you need a castle nut wrench to disassemble it?


Yes you do. Kind of a pain.


Just so we are clear.....

The only way you can remove the bolt setup is to remove the buffer tube? That isn't too grand of a design. I assumed it would pivot open much like an AR.....hmmmm.
Onslaught  [Team Member]
6/14/2010 12:59:05 PM
Wow... what I gigantic let-down.

Thanks for the review!
AZHONKY  [Member]
6/15/2010 3:40:22 PM
Looked like a POS and is one. AZHONKY
McGruff1533  [Member]
6/15/2010 6:23:20 PM
Thanks for the review! I'm set to test/ evaluate their .45 ACP version around August when they release it. I may reconsider the JRC if things aren't refined any better... considering it's a $750 firearm.
rx7145  [Member]
6/15/2010 7:42:52 PM
Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
Originally Posted By rx7145:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
you need a castle nut wrench to disassemble it?


Yes you do. Kind of a pain.


Just so we are clear.....

The only way you can remove the bolt setup is to remove the buffer tube? That isn't too grand of a design. I assumed it would pivot open much like an AR.....hmmmm.


Yes the buffer tube must be removed. I just re-read the instruction manual again
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/15/2010 9:04:12 PM
I am not ready to give up hope yet, because I would like to have one.

Maybe a lighter buffer, hotter ammo.

Maybe you got one with an oddly loose mag well.

Can you post some pics of the gun sometime?
rx7145  [Member]
6/18/2010 10:16:04 PM
Here are some pictures.

http://picasaweb.google.com/rx7145/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCPXH-IS3r4v8ggE&feat=directlink
tankdriver  [Team Member]
6/19/2010 8:41:57 AM
It looks nice, I hope you can get it to fuction correctly. I'd like to get one. The swappable mag kits are a really good idea. As I have a Sig 220 most do not make for.

Keep us posted.......
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/19/2010 10:44:26 AM
I think it looks like a quality item as well.......gotta get the bugs worked out.
Dawg180  [Team Member]
6/19/2010 11:19:55 AM
Originally Posted By rx7145:
Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
Originally Posted By rx7145:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
you need a castle nut wrench to disassemble it?


Yes you do. Kind of a pain.


Just so we are clear.....

The only way you can remove the bolt setup is to remove the buffer tube? That isn't too grand of a design. I assumed it would pivot open much like an AR.....hmmmm.


Yes the buffer tube must be removed. I just re-read the instruction manual again


Kind of, well....dumb.

gt3499a  [Member]
6/25/2010 1:24:07 AM
Thank you for taking the time to write your experience with the rifle down.

The lack of specifications on their website leaves a lot of questions like what it is made out of, weight, buffer tube type, ........

Do you have to remove the bolt to change the side the charging handle is on?

Seems like they missed a good chance to make an optional locked closed position.



Raph84  [Member]
6/25/2010 8:26:52 AM
EMF indicated on their facebook page that they have made some tweaks to the carbine...so hopefully some of these issues are now fixed. They also indicated they sent one to gunblast and one to guns and ammo (I think) for review. So hopefully we will be hearing more soon
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/25/2010 8:48:48 AM
Is it just me, or does every gun on gunblast get a great review....?
Raph84  [Member]
6/25/2010 9:11:21 AM
I've heard it told that Jeff just doesn't write up the guns that don't make the grade. I know I've seen a couple of articles where if you read between the lines he seems to be saying some mildly critical things he just tends to phrase it rather...politely.

HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
6/29/2010 7:02:31 PM
Any updates? I still want one...if they can get past the growing pains
rx7145  [Member]
7/3/2010 12:24:33 AM
Well I did get a sometime to test out the crbine today. I removed the buffer tube and cleaned the bolt. Shot 12 rounds and had a jam on the last round. Swiched to another mag and never got off two rounds without a jam. Used factory glock mags both times.

Now the gun will not shot at all. Pull the trigger and get a click. Its going back to emf.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
7/3/2010 10:41:35 AM
That sucks.....
rx7145  [Member]
7/6/2010 8:06:51 PM
EMF is sending me a shipping label, I'll keep you up to date.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
7/6/2010 8:22:40 PM
Originally Posted By rx7145:
EMF is sending me a shipping label, I'll keep you up to date.


Yes, please do.
mrstang01  [Team Member]
7/7/2010 8:16:45 PM
I had sent an email to EMF asking about this carbine, after I saw it posted on another thread. I then found this thread, and was not too impressed with the results.

A rep from EMF contacted me, and said the 9mm was ready now, and they were taking pre-orders for the .45's, was I interested? I replied that I was not at the current price point based on concerns from this thread. I listed the concerns as posted, and Debbie Sims from EMF responded quickly with some good info. I told her I would post this here, and ask the OP if he had contacted EMF, sounds like he has.

Here is Debbie's response:

Dear Michael,
Thank you for bringing this to our attention.  From the thread, it does
sound like this individual received one of the first production (50) J R
Carbines.  The components were retained by take down pins, and the Quad
rail was slightly undersized.  The J R Carbine has been upgraded & the
new production models have the upgrades.  Here is information provided
by the folks at Just Right Carbines explaining the changes/upgrades.
All that the guy needs to do from the forum is contact EMF and we will
send a return label for him to have his carbine exchanged for one of the
new ones.  We have been unable to sign on the AR-15 site to respond to
the post or let him know.


..."Probably the first difference one would notice in a side-by-side
comparison of your carbine and the enhanced version is the method by
which the trigger housing and magazine well are attached to the
receiver.  Our initial attachment method consisted of posts machined
into the receiver.  The posts are made to fit into recesses in the
trigger housing and mag well and were secured together with pins running
transversely through the posts, locking them into place.  The pins
themselves were grooved circumferentially in the center and kept from
moving laterally by a ball detent in the bottom center of the receiver
posts.  This arrangement proved a bit more cumbersome - and expensive -
than we wanted.  Also, machining tolerances proved to be difficult to
maintain to ensure correct fit so the fit did not feel loose or too
tight.


The current carbine continues to employ the post/recess attachment
method.  This is inherently a very secure way to mate the three central
parts and stabilize them into a single unified unit.  However, instead
of using pins to attaching the trigger housing and mag well to the
receiver, we now accomplish the task with 10-32 flat head hex machine
screws counterbored flush. In doing so we reduced the overall part count
by three (eliminating the ball detent in each of the receiver's three
posts) and mated the parts in more secure, solid manner.


The second major change involves the ejection port area of the receiver.
While the J R Carbine is designed to be a multi-caliber firearm, we
based our initial development on the 9mm Parabellum cartridge because
the feeding and ejection tolerances are a bit more critical on the
smaller caliber than on the larger ones.  Working out the engineering
for the 9mm made doing the same for the .40 S&W and .45 ACP easier to
accomplish.  We discovered, however, that we needed to increase the
inside height of the ejection port area of the receiver to facilitate
ejection of the larger diameter cartridges/casings and to avoid
occasional stovepiping.  Current production receivers now have that
dimension increased.  We are in the process of retro-machining all of
the earlier model receivers to bring them into the current
specification. 


The third major change involves the replacement of the buffer spring
with one that is shorter in length.  Our first prototypes used AR-15
carbine-length spring.  This provided buffering action as well as
sufficient force to cycle the bolt forward and chamber the next round.
As we smoothed out the carbine's action we were able to reduce the
buffer spring even further to an overall length of 10 inches. 


The fourth change involves the firing pin and firing pin spring.  When
we first began developing the J R Carbine we chose to incorporate as
many existing stock parts into the design.  We did this for two reasons.
First, the stock parts were readily available from numerous sources.
Second, they were parts that were already thoroughly tested and proven
reliable.  With that in mind, two items we incorporated off-the-shelf
were the firing pin and firing pin spring - both originally for the 1911
pistol.  While both worked well, in the course of continued testing we
determined that we needed to modify each in light of the way they were
incorporated into our particular bolt design.


The 1911 firing pin spring is turned to a slightly smaller diameter on
one end, which is intended to grip the upper shank of the firing pin and
keep the two parts mated by friction.  We discovered that our bolt
handle, which is able to touch the firing pin/spring assembly as it
rests in the bolt, occasionally caused the firing pin spring to slide
downward off the shoulder of the upper shank, effectively preloading the
spring and resulting in light primer hits.  We have since reversed the
direction of the firing pin spring, placing the larger end of the spring
onto the firing pin so that it remains loose on the firing pin.  Any
occasional contact the bolt handle might have with the firing pin spring
while firing and cycling the action no longer shifts the spring's
position relative to the firing pin, eliminating any light hits.  We
also changed the shape of the upper end of the firing pin, eliminating a
small but pronounced shoulder that also had the potential to
intermittently interfere with the bolt handle.

You may have noticed that the J R Carbine utilizes the trigger, hammer,
safety selector switch, and overall geometry of the AR-15 trigger group.
Again, this is a proven design and in the public domain with many
producers of the same parts, so it was a natural fit.  Unfortunately, we
experienced some sporadic problems with some of the hammers in our early
production carbines.  The J-springs on many of the hammers supplied by
our initial vendor were out of spec.  This permitted the hammer pin to
creep laterally while firing - to the point that the hammer became
misaligned and the gun would fire a 2-round burst before the hammer
became too misaligned to fire at all.  We have worked with our vendors
to correct that problem." 

 
As you can see, the folks at Just Right Carbine, LLC have made
significant improvements to this carbine. Since the above was provided
to us, they have made a few additional changes which should also correct
any issues with this carbine.

We appreciate your continued support.
Sincerely,

Debbie Sims
Director of Operations
EMF Company, Inc.
(800) 430-1310

 

I thought it was great that the Director of Operations would take the time to respond to our concerns.

ETA: Pg2 Pwnage!

Michael


McGruff1533  [Member]
7/9/2010 8:19:19 PM
Debbie Sims is the same lady that I've been speaking with about trying a .45 EMF carbine. Keep us posted how your repair works out
rx7145  [Member]
7/12/2010 7:17:28 PM
Well I got the shipping label and dropped off the package. Now the wait..............
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
7/12/2010 10:35:14 PM
tick tock, tick tock,,,,,,,,,
JamesP81  [Member]
7/20/2010 2:52:15 AM
Tag. This is the only carbine I've seen that has a chance of running on M&P mags, so this thread is relevant to my interests.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
7/25/2010 2:29:58 PM
Any updates?

I am (at the moment) either wanting this, or a Lone Wolf Glock mag lower/spikes or RRa upper.....

I see a couple of these on gunbroker, and wonder if any of the ones available have the changes.
rx7145  [Member]
7/28/2010 1:46:20 AM
Still waiting
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
7/28/2010 9:41:31 AM
I am not waiting anymore...ordered a lone wolf Glock mag AR lower.
jungp  [Member]
7/28/2010 10:07:34 AM
Originally Posted By rx7145:

As far as the jamming they were all FTE. The spent case would get caught on the closing bolt and smash the brass. (see pic)



It could be

1) The ammunition does not have enough power to push the bolt back for positive ejection, or
2) The ejector is too short, or
3) Ejection port and Extractor angle does not match

ETA:

Looks like Debbie addressed #3 with new batch by enlarging the Ejection port.

Raph84  [Member]
7/28/2010 10:19:30 AM
EMF posted yesterday on their facebook that Just Right Carbines (the people building these for EMF) just received the replacement parts and were doing a quick test then they should be pushing fixed carbines out the door....so hopefully there will be some updated reviews soon
steve_77  [Member]
8/9/2010 3:04:45 PM
Linking to another review...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=506409
Raph84  [Member]
8/9/2010 5:35:13 PM
Originally Posted By steve_77:
Linking to another review...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=506409


Now clickable
Raph84  [Member]
8/27/2010 10:34:09 AM
Any word from EMF yet?
rx7145  [Member]
8/29/2010 2:23:27 AM
Not a word.
Onslaught  [Team Member]
8/30/2010 3:59:15 PM
Originally Posted By Raph84:
Originally Posted By steve_77:
Linking to another review...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=506409


Now clickable


THIS is not a review...

Although I didn’t get to fire the rifle I was told it was quite accurate and has ‘made the rounds’ with various agencies, associations, and other folk for testing.
rx7145  [Member]
9/23/2010 9:24:26 PM
Well I got it back today. 2 months and twelve days later

I'm thinking about doing a utube vid for a review.

Its not looking good

HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
9/23/2010 9:57:04 PM
Did they make any changes/upgrades, etc????
McGruff1533  [Member]
9/25/2010 4:11:55 PM
Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Originally Posted By Raph84:
Originally Posted By steve_77:
Linking to another review...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=15&t=506409


Now clickable


THIS is not a review...

Although I didn’t get to fire the rifle I was told it was quite accurate and has ‘made the rounds’ with various agencies, associations, and other folk for testing.


Looking forward to seeing your video.

rx7145  [Member]
9/25/2010 8:46:19 PM
Yes they did. The bolt is different and the extractor is different as well.

I did't have time to shoot the vid this week

It will be this next weekend.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
9/25/2010 8:56:27 PM
Good luck.......excited to see video.
rx7145  [Member]
10/1/2010 7:12:07 PM
Its in the can. Having a friend work on some editing.
rx7145  [Member]
10/1/2010 9:51:29 PM
Here it is. It has not been made public yet.

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URcJEc6PgK4
Raph84  [Member]
10/2/2010 2:47:36 AM
Well done vid. Hopefully EMF and Just Right can get these running more smoothly, as it is such a great concept. Good luck on getting it 100% ( and please keep us updated)
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
10/2/2010 10:39:34 AM
I agree, good video.

So, bad 33rd mag that caused all the FTFs....

Only other issue was the light strikes. I wonder if the bolt isn't full closing on the light strikes?

Does this use a buffer like an AR 9mm does? Maybe a heavier buffer could solve the issues.....if it has to do with the bolt not fully going into battery.

Is the G18 mag a factorymag? The video is a bit dark so it is hard to tell for sure.

I think it is pretty close.
HK_DUDE  [Team Member]
10/2/2010 10:49:10 AM
Made it hot.....click here


pssssst........If those are magpul sights, they are backwards.