Did I get good information?
I spoke with a manufacturer today about SBRs.
I wanted to buy several lowers from them, already manufactured as SBRs (no engraving that way). It was explained to me that the ATF no longer allows that - it must be a complete rifle for them to sell it and they showed me a very nice 10.5 rifle at a very nice price.
They told me I could do it with my own lowers though..... But then I can't own a short barreled upper until the form comes back approved....
So the ATF rules are nonsensical in that respect..... Seems like the mfg should be able to just sell me a lower already SBR'd.
I was also informed that I could not just swap uppers on an SBR. The NFA form lists the actual barrel length and also the caliber....
So I was told I can't swap out a 10.5 in 5.56 barrel with an 8 in 5.45 barrel.... or even swap 5.56 uppers around that are different lengths.....
I would have to send in additional paperwork to the ATF in order to make those kinds of changes.
So, did I get good info or not?
Originally Posted By criley:
I spoke with a manufacturer today about SBRs.
I wanted to buy several lowers from them, already manufactured as SBRs (no engraving that way). It was explained to me that the ATF no longer allows that - it must be a complete rifle for them to sell it and they showed me a very nice 10.5 rifle at a very nice price. Yes, because with out the Short Barrel upper on it, it is just a lower.
They told me I could do it with my own lowers though..... yes, noveske will do this, you buy a sbr upper and send them your lower, they will form 2 it and Form 4 it back to you even out of state..
But then I can't own a short barreled upper until the form comes back approved.... Would be advised not to do so unless you currently have an SBR or a Complete Pistol Lower
So the ATF rules are nonsensical in that respect..... Seems like the mfg should be able to just sell me a lower already SBR'd. Back to your first question, but what do you expect it's the ATF.
I was also informed that I could not just swap uppers on an SBR. The NFA form lists the actual barrel length and also the caliber.... BS, you can put any type caliber/length barreled upper on it You only need to notify the ATF if you Permanently change the caliber and length.
So I was told I can't swap out a 10.5 in 5.56 barrel with an 8 in 5.45 barrel.... or even swap 5.56 uppers around that are different lengths..... answered in the last question
I would have to send in additional paperwork to the ATF in order to make those kinds of changes. answered in the last question
So, did I get good info or not?
You got some good and bad info. Responses in red.
Also here is a link to the Noveske SBR program:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/impdf/sbr_program.pdfThanks for the input...
Originally Posted By Shermantor-AR15:
[quote]Originally Posted By criley:
I spoke with a manufacturer today about SBRs.
I wanted to buy several lowers from them, already manufactured as SBRs (no engraving that way). It was explained to me that the ATF no longer allows that - it must be a complete rifle for them to sell it and they showed me a very nice 10.5 rifle at a very nice price. Yes, because with out the Short Barrel upper on it, it is just a lower. Yes, but the AFT allows me to register a lower as an SBR before I even buy the upper....weird. Evidently this is a somewhat recent reinterpretation of their rules, from what I was told.
They told me I could do it with my own lowers though..... yes, noveske will do this, you buy a sbr upper and send them your lower, they will form 2 it and Form 4 it back to you even out of state.. But only on Noveske lowers. Which makes sense, of course.
But then I can't own a short barreled upper until the form comes back approved.... Would be advised not to do so unless you currently have an SBR or a Complete Pistol Lower
So the ATF rules are nonsensical in that respect..... Seems like the mfg should be able to just sell me a lower already SBR'd. Back to your first question, but what do you expect it's the ATF.
I was also informed that I could not just swap uppers on an SBR. The NFA form lists the actual barrel length and also the caliber.... BS, you can put any type caliber/length barreled upper on it You only need to notify the ATF if you Permanently change the caliber and length. This is what I believed... I am going to try and find documentation on it. If you know off the top of your head where to find it, let me know. Just curious.... if one can change uppers (length and caliber) at will, why ever change anything with the ATF?
So I was told I can't swap out a 10.5 in 5.56 barrel with an 8 in 5.45 barrel.... or even swap 5.56 uppers around that are different lengths..... answered in the last question
I would have to send in additional paperwork to the ATF in order to make those kinds of changes. answered in the last question
So, did I get good info or not?
NFA Branch's interpretation is sound.
With the Form 1, you are not really registering an SBR per se, you are submitting an application to "Make" one. They are pre-approving the act of making it, so of course they need to approve it before it's actually put together.
The Form 2 is actually a registration form since an SOT does not require specific pre-approval to make one. They make it, then submit the Form 2 to register it.
Separately, for Title II law, a stripped lower does not meet the definition of "short-barreled rifle" so it cannot be transferred as such.
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
NFA Branch's interpretation is sound.
With the Form 1, you are not really registering an SBR per se, you are submitting an application to "Make" one. They are pre-approving the act of making it, so of course they need to approve it before it's actually put together.
The Form 2 is actually a registration form since an SOT does not require specific pre-approval to make one. They make it, then submit the Form 2 to register it.
Separately, for Title II law, a stripped lower does not meet the definition of "short-barreled rifle" so it cannot be transferred as such.
Thanks.
I just found that info on the ATF website.
I also found where it states that changing out uppers back and forth - 16in or less to more than 16in, and then back again - is fine. They didn't specifically mention switching calibers or switching out between uppers less than 16in, though. Seems like they would have no problem as long as the lower is on the registry. Guess I will give the ATF a call to be on the safe side.
Here is another one....
If I go the route of using one or more of my current lowers to "make" an SBR....
Can I list "multi caliber" on the ATF form?
Originally Posted By criley:
Here is another one....
If I go the route of using one or more of my current lowers to "make" an SBR....
Can I list "multi caliber" on the ATF form?
No. Again, you are "making" an SBR. Due to the laws of physics, the initial act of making an SBR means one caliber (generally speaking), one barrel length and one overall length. The Form 1 has nothing to do with it's subsequent use after the initial act of making it, so adding confusing language like "multi" or forcing additional calibers and barrel lengths on to the Form where there is no place for it is counter-productive at best. Lately, NFA Branch examiners are sending the forms back to you for correction when this is done.
Just use whatever configuration will be your
first configuration. Whatever you choose to add or change after building it is of no concern to ATF.
ETA: A lot of people make the mistake of over-interpreting the Form 1 to include future use. It's merely about initially making the gun, that's all. Change calibers and barrels at will thereafter.
