How is the recoil on a 16 inch HK91?

I sent my Springfield Armory SAR8 to Arizona Response Systems to be refinished and possibly to have a G3k conversion done (barrel cut to 15 inches and a muzzle device welded on). How is the recoil of a H&K91 type rifle with a 16 inch barrel?

Thanks,

1981

Gas guns have little recoil, but muzzle rise is significant on 7.62.

12lb trigger was what I disliked most on my 91.

I had an HK91 back in the early 1990's. But, the 91's were all 19" barrel lenths (not available in 16") and that gun kicked like a mule. I also had the FN LAR (full length standard stock semi-auto version of the FN FAL), the FN LAR paratrooper (folding stock), and the Galil AR .308. Of all of those rifles, the felt recoil was heaviest on the HK91 and lightest on the Galil. A few years ago had a DSA FAL (copy of the FN LAR) paratrooper model with 16" barrel and the recoil was not bad. The HK91 always did have a rougher, heavier recoil.

91s kick bad, but the part that I dont get is how they launch brass into orbit

Correct. Gas operated rifles tend to have little recoil. However, the G3 (or HK91) is a roller delayed blowback operated rifle which has significantly more felt recoil than its gas operated competitors (Namely the FAL and the M14).

The recoil isn't that bad but it is noticeable.
Look at the mass of the carrier. It's moving pretty good when the ejector does it's job. The extractor is beefy too. Just don't make the mistake of shooting with a scope and drape your left hand over the receiver underneath the scope while covering the ejection port.

I thought I lost a finger. Put my hand in my armpit until I had the strength to look at my hand.

It's a mistake you don't make twice.

G3k barrel length is 12.4 inches
Having shot a semi-auto G3k i can say that it has a kick but it is controllable

This is interesting, not trying to hijack the thread, but I sold my Poly M14s to fund my G3 clone. In my opinion there is less felt recoil on my G3 clone then there was on my M14.

I'm told that a heavy buffer and psg1 trigger pack helps tame the recoil, can someone who has tried this chime in?

There is much less recoil on a G3 than a M14

I'm using a heavy buffer and standard trigger pack.

Recoil is no worse than an AK.

recoil is negligible add a prs stock and its minimal, i cant speak for the collapsible though never shot one.

the 16" isn't as nice to shoot as the 18" if you are running a muzzle brake, flash hider ok.
oddly the 12" is nicer than the 16" fwiw.

I just spoke to Mark at Arizona Response Systems and he advised me that I have some bad pitting just behind the muzzle. Im going to have the G3k conversion done. That way all the pitting will be removed. Mark said he will do his G3k conversion which includes cutting the barrel down to 15 inches and then welding a H&K flash hider onto the barrel (after the barrel is rethreaded). When everything is said and done Ill have about $1500 in my SAR8. Can't wait to get her back!

1981

My PTR91SC has a fair amount of recoil. A tight cheek weld is important if you don't want a bruise. Still manageable and as with most HK style rifles still has quick reacquisition.

Man I'd love to get an SAR-8. I had one (my first gun!) for about 10 years, then sold it. Perfect for NY laws too.

Living in NYS really sucks if you are into guns... Im lucky because it turns out that my SAR8 is pre ban as she was made in June of 1994 .

1981

ARS did my SAR8 G3K a few years back, its my favorite HK 91 to shoot, I have 4 others all HK, from stock to SR9TC.

pic is an older set up, but I run the heavy buffers in all my G3's, its a joy to shoot. Now has, Williams or Springfield trigger. SG1 stock, railed forend and IOR 1.5-8. and other stuff, it runs 110%, accurate, low recoil and fun

Delayed blow back system, so it comes down to what buffer you are running.

The stock buffer is a tad on the brutal side no matter what in regards to felt recoil, but you can swap out the standard buffer to a heavy or even a HK 21 buffer to dam near take all the felt action recoil out of the rig.



http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK91-G3-PTR91-Clubfoot-With-Heavy-Rubber-Buttpad-p1144.htm
bottom of the link page for either heavy or 21 buffer

so what am i going to want to run in my V51 SBR? it has the A2? stock i think

Pick your poison from above.

On the longer buffers, you just have to make a sleeve spacer (PVC will work) so you can bolt up the buffer from within the inside of the stock like on the standard shorter unit.

I'm guess that you have never pulled a buffer out a HK stock before?

How do u like that scope and mount? Does it work well with the G3 conversion?

Thanks,

1981

I paid the dealer 1,500 for the one he had on the wall after eying it for 3 or 4 months. Fired a few mags out of it at the I door range he has then broke it down, looked at the parts, put it back together. That is my extent of my first hand experience with the H&K platform.
Well other than the new USMC IAR we got a few months back, that's neat but I don't get why people are shitting over it.

I have had 2 HK91's my first and the one i still have came from HK with the heavy buffer and it makes a big difference in felt recoil.
the std buffer still makes recoil feel lighter than the M1a but it is still firm.

I'm guessing the 21 or heavy buffers aren't compatable with the A3 stocks?

Correct.

Bill Springfield does make an improved A3 stock buffer. Definitely going in my A3 stocks when I build my G3K and 51

Agreed.

I have a Poly M14S and a PTR with a 16" barrel.

The POLY has noticeably more recoil. Up until I installed a Troy MCS Chassis on it. The extra weight of the MCS has taken a little of the recoil out of the M14S and they are about the same now. However the 16" PTR is night and light, whereas the M14S is now a TANK.

Thank you. That is good to know for when I get around to buying that PTR-32.

I have a cetme witth a 16" barrel and a collapsible (meat grinder) stock. Its pleasurable to shoot. Never would consider changing the buffer.

I've noticed that some G3's recoil harder than others.

I think it might have something to do with bolt gap.

Had the same set up. With the collapsible stock on it, it was not fun to shoot. With the standard stock on it, it was OK.

But then again, maybe I am just getting old.

Thanks,

Don-S1

So I won't have completely wasted my time, here is something I just posted on the effects of gap (readers digest version):
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_9/359257_things_that_bolt_gap_influence.html

On bolt gap, the rabbit hole gets a little deeper.

The concept is that you will have a set bolt gap on a empty chamber, and when checked again on a loaded chamber, should have an increase on bolt gap.

On a G3, I like to set the empty chamber at about a .012 bolt gap, and when checked again on a loaded chamber, want to see something in the .018 range.

If you do not get an bolt to carrier gap increase on a loaded chamber, than the chamber was reamed too deep, and bolt tension against the live case goes right out the window, since all the bolt is really seating out against is the back of the barrel breach, with the round now rattling loosely around in the chamber.

Would you get reliable function on a g3k w/ a hk21/23e buffer in say a clubfoot setup w/ g3 recoil assembly, tungsten insert carrier.

Reliable function? Hell, I don't even know what you just said!

I have a 91 with the Collapsible stock.

If you haven't purchased yet, and it has the factory retractable stock, I know how you can prepare yourself for range time in the privacy of your own home.

Grab a broom and pick it up to your shoulder. Place the broom handle in between your shoulder blade and collar bone.

Hold steady, then run into the wall in front of you.

HK91 with PSG1 Trigger group and PSG1 stock, sighting it in but you can get an idea of the recoil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XotrrS_SVRM

This is really funny but really true. An realistic description. I have one on a PTR32 and it is not a problem because of the weight of the gun, the heavy weight of the BC group and the smaller 7.62x39mm round.

This is a modified PTR91 with a 16 inch barrel but has the MSG90 buffer and Williams trigger job. It is shortly about to have the barrel cut down to 12.69 inches to G3K length. The recoil is there but with the stock and pad, etc very, very tolerable. Also, it is not necessary to bolt the buffer in the rear of the stock for those changing to a longer buffer. The 21E stock does have a steel tube in it to accomodate the buffer.

Other than caliber, what does that have to do with a 16" barrel and a collapsible stock?

Don't know if you are referring to the above post but 5 posts's previously asked just this question on this type rifle. Retracting stock? lost me there too and FYI the barrel is 16 inches.

The HK is a delayed blow back action.

All the buffer is doing is controlling on how hard the B/C is going to impact the butt stop cap the last inch of rearward stoke. Ejection is always going to be a country mile out with the spent cases since the buffer plays not part of the stoke until the last inch rearward, and it just comes down to just how hard or soft the buffer is going to come into play to a stop the bolt before it runs of room and hits the butt stock front cap surface.


If you are looking to slow the stroke, then that is all done by working with the B/C gap, via a smaller gap will keep the bolt locked up a mil second longer (same thing that the tungsten insert buffer is doing, since the math for unlock is engagement of the rollers, the mass of the buffer and spring, and the tension of the recoil spring alone).


As for the fluting, that is to allow bore gasses to bleed back through the chamber so the spent case is not totally pressure bound to the chamber wall as spent case pushes back on the bolt to cycle the action.

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