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 Shot Gun pistol grip question
natedogx  [Member]
2/19/2012 10:17:20 PM
My son-in-law wanted to buy a shotgun for home defense, but the gun dealer would not sale it to him because it had a pistol grip on it. He is 20 and in the military. That seemed weird to me. I live in Nebraska and you just have to be 18 to own a long gun. Is the dealer blowing smoke or is it a state law?
thanks natedogx
Metonymy  [Member]
2/19/2012 10:26:17 PM
I believe the pistol grip would classify it as an AOW. If it's not explicitly a rifle or shotgun, no-go to under 21.

I'm sure the legal scholars will be along shortly to correct me should I be wrong.
Unicorn  [Industry Partner]
2/19/2012 10:31:03 PM
If it doesn't have a stock, just a pistol grip, then the ATF States it's not a long gun/shotgun since it's not meant to be fired from the shoulder. It's an "other." Not an AOW though since it's over 26 inches and not considered concealable. And therefore can only be sold to someone 21 and older. This is federal law. Any dealer, in any state, that sells one of the "pistol gripped firearms" (how it's named in the ATF newsletter that addressed this) to someone under 21 is risking their license and jail time.

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firepyro515  [Member]
2/19/2012 11:31:18 PM
I don't know if he has a price limit.........but i do know that standard Mossberg 500 shotguns come with both straight stocks (installed at factory) and pistol grip..........
WA-Tom  [Member]
2/20/2012 12:02:46 AM
If its barrel is greater than 18" it can be sold as a long gun. Mossberg used to sell guns like that had a pistol grip on it. Title 1 weapon, non NFA.
Crazyhorse26  [Member]
2/20/2012 12:09:28 AM
I wouldn't take it personal, the dealer is just CYA....
Phil_in_Seattle  [Moderator]
2/20/2012 12:37:10 AM



FFL NEWSLETTER

AUGUST 1998

AGE RESTRICTION REMINDER
Licensees are reminded that certain commercially
produced "shotguns” do not fall within the
definition of shotgun under the GCA. Firearms
such as the Mossberg Model 500 Camper,
Persuader 500 and all other makes and models,
which come equipped with a pistol grip in place
of the butt stock, are not shotguns under the GCA.
Therefore, they cannot be sold or delivered by a
licensee to any person less than 21 years of age.




February1999 FFL NEWSLETTER VOLUME 1
AGE RESTRICTIONS ON FIREARMS
TRANSACTIONS
Youth Handgun Safety Act
Recently mailings went to the licensees providing
for poster requirements and handbill delivery
requirements of an explanation brochure to
handgun transferees from Federal firearms
licensees. These mailings led to some confusion
within the industry. No change has been made to
the age restrictions pertaining to Federal firearms
licensees transferring firearms. If the firearm
being transferred is other than a rifle or shotgun
[27 CFR § 178.99(b) & 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1)],
then the purchaser must be 21 years of age or
older. It the firearm is a rifle or shotgun then the
purchaser must be 18 years of age or older.
The Youth Handgun Safety Act of 1996 (YHSA)
made it unlawful for “any person” to provide a
handgun to a juvenile (under 18 years of age),
with limited exceptions. Prior to the implementation
of this law, a nonlicensed individual was not
restricted under Federal law from providing a
handgun to a person of any age. They were
restricted as to State of residence and prohibited
person categories, but no age restriction. The
YHSA changed this.
Then by regulation, effective September 11, 1998,
ATF implemented a requirement for Federal
firearms licensees to place a poster in their
premises, including gunshows, informing their
purchasers of this new law. In addition, the
licensee must provide a copy of the restrictions as
provided on ATF I 5300.2. This poster and these
handouts may be obtained from the ATF Distribution
Center at 703-455-7801.
“Shotguns” with pistol grips attached
In the last ATF Newsletter (August 1998) an
article stated shotguns with pistol grips and no
shoulder stocks attached were restricted to
persons 21 years of age or older if being sold by a
Federal firearms licensee. This requirement is
specified in 27 CFR § 178.99(b) and 18 U.S.C.
922(b)(1) (www.atf.treas.gov/core/regulations/
27cfr178.html), which states that if the firearm to
be transferred is “other than a rifle or shotgun”
then the purchaser must be 21 years of age. The
definition of a shotgun under the GCA [18 U.S.C.
§ 921(a)(5)] is a weapon “intended to be fired
from the shoulder.” With the pistol grip in lieu of
the shoulder stock, this weapon is not designed to
be fired from the shoulder, and therefore is not a
shotgun.
Questions have been raised about those firearms
that are supplied with both a pistol grip and a
shoulder stock. If the firearm is sold with the
shoulder stock then the firearm is intended to be
fired from the shoulder and would be considered a
shotgun. The shoulder stock does not necessarily
have to be attached at the time. Persons 18 years
of age or older may purchase those firearms from
licensees.
Other questions raised pertain to entries made in
the licensee’s required records as to firearm
“type” if not shotgun. These entries may indicate
the firearm type simply as Title I.
Unicorn  [Industry Partner]
2/20/2012 1:33:28 AM
Originally Posted By WA-Tom:
If its barrel is greater than 18" it can be sold as a long gun. Mossberg used to sell guns like that had a pistol grip on it. Title 1 weapon, non NFA.


Not true. Read the letter that Phil posted. If it doesn't have a stock it doesn't meet the definition of a shotgun or long gun. It's not an NFA item because the barrel is over 18in and the overall length is 26 or over.

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WA-Tom  [Member]
2/20/2012 6:04:18 AM
Thanks for the posting Phil. I geuss if you had posted before I did then I would not have posted what I did!
chrisb9381  [Member]
2/20/2012 11:47:40 AM

Originally Posted By firepyro515:
I don't know if he has a price limit.........but i do know that standard Mossberg 500 shotguns come with both straight stocks (installed at factory) and pistol grip..........

You can pick these up all day long at walmart for, most likely, less than he was going to pay from a dealer for a pistol grip shotty anyway.
natedogx  [Member]
2/20/2012 12:55:41 PM
Thanks for the info. Well I learned something new!
2whiskeyP  [Team Member]
2/20/2012 1:23:46 PM
I paid $180 for a Mossy 500 several years ago at Big 5. Came with 18.5 and 28 inch barrel, regular wood stock, pistol grip and heat shield attachment. Great deal. They changed the pkg now though and it no longer has the heatshield for the short barrel.
chrisb9381  [Member]
2/20/2012 4:55:26 PM

Originally Posted By 2whiskeyP:
I paid $180 for a Mossy 500 several years ago at Big 5. Came with 18.5 and 28 inch barrel, regular wood stock, pistol grip and heat shield attachment. Great deal. They changed the pkg now though and it no longer has the heatshield for the short barrel.

Its on sale this weekend again for 259 with a synthetic stock.
timing  [Member]
2/20/2012 9:18:33 PM
In 2000 at the age of 18 and a day, I bought a mossberg 500 that came with an 18.5" barrel, a stock attached, and a pistol grip in the box. Paid 2something for it.