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Thoughts on improving your 3-gun skills
3/9/2011 1:22:40 AM
I picked up some good tips from a decent 3-gunner and thought I'd post and circulate for discussion:
Pistol -
* To be a good 3-gunner, shoot a lot of 3-gun matches. To be a great 3-gunner, also shoot a lot of pistol matches
* IDPA is fun but don't shoot too much of it or it'll make you too slow to be competitive in 3-gun
* Don't take pistol stages for granted because a 10s difference between shooters is much greater than 10s on a LR steel stage
Rifle -
* Having a light, fast handling rifle enables easier offhand shooting
* IPSC targets at 50 yards. Shoot at 4X for faster double taps even though your FOV is more restricted, unless you'll lose track of your targets.
* Shoot offhand steel from 50-200 yards often to build this skill set
Shotgun -
* Be afraid to miss targets as it'll blow your reload strategy
* If your shotgun slugs aren't hitting accurately, consider bending your barrel
* Big, giant steps while reloading weakhand will save time
Match tips -
* Never give up and stay positive. Just because you tanked a stage doesn't mean your match is done. Someone else will screw up too so keep shooting consistently.
Pistol -
* To be a good 3-gunner, shoot a lot of 3-gun matches. To be a great 3-gunner, also shoot a lot of pistol matches
* IDPA is fun but don't shoot too much of it or it'll make you too slow to be competitive in 3-gun
* Don't take pistol stages for granted because a 10s difference between shooters is much greater than 10s on a LR steel stage
Rifle -
* Having a light, fast handling rifle enables easier offhand shooting
* IPSC targets at 50 yards. Shoot at 4X for faster double taps even though your FOV is more restricted, unless you'll lose track of your targets.
* Shoot offhand steel from 50-200 yards often to build this skill set
Shotgun -
* Be afraid to miss targets as it'll blow your reload strategy
* If your shotgun slugs aren't hitting accurately, consider bending your barrel
* Big, giant steps while reloading weakhand will save time
Match tips -
* Never give up and stay positive. Just because you tanked a stage doesn't mean your match is done. Someone else will screw up too so keep shooting consistently.
3/9/2011 10:06:08 AM
I have no idea the intent on the 50 yard targets at 4x, but will say that in the end, the greatest skills learned with the rifle are familiarity with the platform and being to be a solid position shooter, especially offhand.
On the shotgun, no need for, "big, giant" steps. Watch 3 of the best limited/tactical shotgun shooters, Taran Butler, Chris Sechiatano and Robbie Johnson. When they're reloading and moving, they're not rushing to get to the next position, they're walking at the pace they're reloading so that when they're down reloading the gun is coming back up and ready to engage. The travel distance to the target dictates the speed of movement, but not at the compromise of smooth reloading.
On the pistol.....1000% correct. Just from a mechanical standpoint, of the 3 platforms, the pistol IS the most difficult to shoot and if you're a good/great pistol shooter, learning the rifle and shotgun is VERY easy (comparatively). Just look at the number of points of contact with the pistol vs. a long gun to understand this. So...while IDPA is a solid way to become good at the fundamentals, 3-Gun is a more dynamic sport where problem solving by the shooter is exceedingly important and the regimented engagement rules of IDPA inhibit that creativity. So...as it may pain some folks, shooting USPSA/IPSC is a much better medium for improving 3-Gun shooting skills.
Inner match tip. One big thing that I SMOKE people on is gun transitions. It could be standing in one spot, but going from rifle to shotgun or vice versa, or to the pistol, etc., is some kind of emotional stressor for a lot of folks. So, part of your practice should be transitioning between guns. Nothing fancy. 1-6 shot drills and transition to a new gun. Do it loaded, unloaded, in a drawer, out of a barrel, etc. The point is variety that will see how well you are comfortable with each gun. All you have to see what I'm talking about is the guy that say puts down his pistol, grabs the rifle, thinks about pulling the charging handle, then pulls it, half-way mounts the rifle, then turns it over to see if the safety is off, mounts, does some kind of a shake to seat it into his shoulder, then acquires the target and about 20-35 seconds later executes their first shot.
Hope that helped.
Rich
ETA: On barrel bending: Find good slugs. Your barrel is likely fine. The groups will change with different chokes though. Usually IC or Modified will work just fine. On IDPA, it's not going to make you slower. It's just not a problem solving game.
On the shotgun, no need for, "big, giant" steps. Watch 3 of the best limited/tactical shotgun shooters, Taran Butler, Chris Sechiatano and Robbie Johnson. When they're reloading and moving, they're not rushing to get to the next position, they're walking at the pace they're reloading so that when they're down reloading the gun is coming back up and ready to engage. The travel distance to the target dictates the speed of movement, but not at the compromise of smooth reloading.
On the pistol.....1000% correct. Just from a mechanical standpoint, of the 3 platforms, the pistol IS the most difficult to shoot and if you're a good/great pistol shooter, learning the rifle and shotgun is VERY easy (comparatively). Just look at the number of points of contact with the pistol vs. a long gun to understand this. So...while IDPA is a solid way to become good at the fundamentals, 3-Gun is a more dynamic sport where problem solving by the shooter is exceedingly important and the regimented engagement rules of IDPA inhibit that creativity. So...as it may pain some folks, shooting USPSA/IPSC is a much better medium for improving 3-Gun shooting skills.
Inner match tip. One big thing that I SMOKE people on is gun transitions. It could be standing in one spot, but going from rifle to shotgun or vice versa, or to the pistol, etc., is some kind of emotional stressor for a lot of folks. So, part of your practice should be transitioning between guns. Nothing fancy. 1-6 shot drills and transition to a new gun. Do it loaded, unloaded, in a drawer, out of a barrel, etc. The point is variety that will see how well you are comfortable with each gun. All you have to see what I'm talking about is the guy that say puts down his pistol, grabs the rifle, thinks about pulling the charging handle, then pulls it, half-way mounts the rifle, then turns it over to see if the safety is off, mounts, does some kind of a shake to seat it into his shoulder, then acquires the target and about 20-35 seconds later executes their first shot.
Hope that helped.
Rich
ETA: On barrel bending: Find good slugs. Your barrel is likely fine. The groups will change with different chokes though. Usually IC or Modified will work just fine. On IDPA, it's not going to make you slower. It's just not a problem solving game.
3/9/2011 10:23:30 AM
I strongly disagree with the "use 4x at 50yds" nonsense. Better advice is to use the MINIMUM magnification you can get away with... the less magnification, the faster your transitions. Use only as much magnification as you need to resolve the target and hit it where you want. I run a red dot now and don't feel too disadvantaged compared with the Meopta 1-4x I used to run.
3/9/2011 10:46:42 AM
^^^ Amen to that!
Rich
Rich
3/9/2011 11:47:35 AM
Know how to reload your shotgun strong hand and weak hand.
I've never done this but my friend strong hand reloads and loaded all of his shells backwards in his caddies. He was forced to learn how to weakhand load DURING a stage.
I load quickly with my weak hand but I can also strong hand load at a reasonable pace. Being able to do both will allow you to shoot a mediocre stage instead of completely tanking it if this happens to you.
I've never done this but my friend strong hand reloads and loaded all of his shells backwards in his caddies. He was forced to learn how to weakhand load DURING a stage.
I load quickly with my weak hand but I can also strong hand load at a reasonable pace. Being able to do both will allow you to shoot a mediocre stage instead of completely tanking it if this happens to you.
3/9/2011 12:34:26 PM
* If your shotgun slugs aren't hitting accurately, consider bending your barrel
My preference is "find slugs that shoot straight then buy lots of them". I had slugs that did not shoot straight, and I learned I could roll the shotgun over a bit and they were right on. Then I found some that shot straight with no shenanigans and that was much better.
When I shoot pistol matches, I use the 3gun gear, even leave the shotgun trays on the belt.
Lee
3/9/2011 12:46:01 PM
I don't think IDPA makes you a "slower" pistol shooter.
3/9/2011 2:49:10 PM
Originally Posted By baergunner:
I don't think IDPA makes you a "slower" pistol shooter.
I don't think IDPA makes you a "slower" pistol shooter.
Sure it does. All that tactical reload and cover crap will slow you down in 3 gun.
3/9/2011 4:34:47 PM
Originally Posted By ABN-RGR:
Sure it does. All that tactical reload and cover crap will slow you down in 3 gun.
Originally Posted By baergunner:
I don't think IDPA makes you a "slower" pistol shooter.
I don't think IDPA makes you a "slower" pistol shooter.
Sure it does. All that tactical reload and cover crap will slow you down in 3 gun.
Well, a fast IDPA shooter will be a fast 3-gunner. I am sure some can throw a mental switch and change games. It is just more stuff to remember from the walk-through. I can't, I have a hard enough time remembering my plan for a stage, but I know some can.
3/9/2011 6:56:52 PM
I strongly encourage all my opponents to run 4x at 50 yards, and yes take some giant steps
pretty please
3/9/2011 11:34:18 PM
I have been 3gunning for 8 months and have shot 6 matches. I have greatly improved. Some improvement was from proper equipment; muzzle brakes, optics, better belt, mag holders and such.
Most improvement for me was practice.
-I run drills with a timer and recorded every time and split. Without knowing your practice times, how do you know if your getting quicker.
-I practice with another 3gunner. There is always something to learn from a skilled shooter. We watch each other, critique and suggest correcting bad habbits.
-At home i pick a spot draw, get proper grip, aquire target, dry fire, drop mag, reload. over and over.
-Shotgun reload practice at home.
Edit: knowing zero
Most improvement for me was practice.
-I run drills with a timer and recorded every time and split. Without knowing your practice times, how do you know if your getting quicker.
-I practice with another 3gunner. There is always something to learn from a skilled shooter. We watch each other, critique and suggest correcting bad habbits.
-At home i pick a spot draw, get proper grip, aquire target, dry fire, drop mag, reload. over and over.
-Shotgun reload practice at home.
Edit: knowing zero
3/10/2011 10:51:46 PM
* Never Mind......
I thought they were inferring that it was OK to miss....apologies.
I thought they were inferring that it was OK to miss....apologies.
3/11/2011 12:31:50 AM
Many stages are won and lost on the following concepts:
Reloading the shotgun: who ever can do it most efficiently will win.
Long Range Rifle: You have got to know your hold-overs and ranges. People waste a lot of time missing long range steel.
Reloading the shotgun: who ever can do it most efficiently will win.
Long Range Rifle: You have got to know your hold-overs and ranges. People waste a lot of time missing long range steel.
