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3Trip
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:12:47 PM
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 9:13:41 PM by 3Trip]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Take strip of anodized aluminum. Laser engrave BTC code onto strip.

Now you can't even lose it in a fire.




why a strip and not a disc? lots of folks like and use metal discs of all kinds.

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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:13:11 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By gaspain:
the exhanges are fixing the price, the consumer is not.

its all rigged. Not to say you cant make money in a rigged game, just watch out.


That's utter bullshit.

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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:18:44 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 3Trip:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:


Take strip of anodized aluminum. Laser engrave BTC code onto strip.

Now you can't even lose it in a fire.


or stainless.
hey a business Idea for you..



why a strip and not a disc? lots of folks like and use metal discs of all kinds.
Might be doable, but people would really have to trust me.



Whatever is cheapest and most available.

Fiber lasers are what you really need to mark stainless. I've got a Co2. You can use a co2, but you have to use chemical dyes to make a permanent mark on stainless.

Disc vs strip? Might stock a few of both, just so the customer has the option.

I really don't know that there'd be much of a market for this tho. Alot of trust involved.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:22:17 PM
Sell sell sell!

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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:23:45 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By flash556:
Youse guys are nuts.....
I'm putting my money in Dutch Tulip Bulbs


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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:23:56 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.
1Andy2
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:26:21 PM
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 9:31:53 PM by 1Andy2]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.


That isn't how it works at all.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:44:57 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

Putting aside the rest of the drivel in your post. THIS is gold .... pure comedy gold.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:45:10 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Going to come cashing down next week after the new US coin validation scheme gets announced.


Seriously? How big of a drop do you see?


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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:57:51 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.


You are a fucking liar.

Prove me wrong. If they're so easy to counterfeit, send me 10 fake BTC - here's the address: 13mj3WicBJTX1195wzFERW5v2yDQeQW2kh. Do it, and I'll apologize and leave Arfcom in disgrace.

For those of you in the peanut gallery, the address is linked to Blockchain.info's representation of the public ledger. If money gets sent there, it'll show up immediately. It won't though because wikileaks is a fucking liar.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 9:58:54 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bigfeet:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Going to come cashing down next week after the new US coin validation scheme gets announced.


Seriously? How big of a drop do you see?


Bigfeet


I don't think any scheme will be announced. If one were, prices would surge.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:01:27 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bigfeet:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Going to come cashing down next week after the new US coin validation scheme gets announced.


Seriously? How big of a drop do you see?


Bigfeet


Depends which philosophy you follow.

Typically ANY government regulation into something results in an increase in price.

Coin Validation, however, could be a bitcoin killer. The idea is, if a coin has ever been used for an illegal transaction, it becomes unacceptable as payment. It's the equivalent to voiding the value of any US currency you own if it has ever been used in an illegal transaction (which, BTW, is pretty much ALL US currency).

The caveat is that it would only affect US transactions. So, it's hard to say. See above example - it would have no effect on the Yuan, except perhaps, for making it more valuable....
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:03:22 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By Bigfeet:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Going to come cashing down next week after the new US coin validation scheme gets announced.


Seriously? How big of a drop do you see?


Bigfeet


Depends which philosophy you follow.

Typically ANY government regulation into something results in an increase in price.

Coin Validation, however, could be a bitcoin killer. The idea is, if a coin has ever been used for an illegal transaction, it becomes unacceptable as payment. It's the equivalent to voiding the value of any US currency you own if it has ever been used in an illegal transaction (which, BTW, is pretty much ALL US currency).

The caveat is that it would only affect US transactions. So, it's hard to say. See above example - it would have no effect on the Yuan, except perhaps, for making it more valuable....


I don't understand... how would they even do that?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:06:03 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By patriot_man:
So for mtgox I see they require physical verification of your identity. What's the point of the verification? Is this to prep for any future financial regulations and laws that will pertain to bitcoin?


Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. If the bank transfer or credit card transaction used to bring cash into the exchange gets reversed, the exchange is fucked since the guy buying the Bitcoins will be long gone with the Bitcoins in hand. Most places taking cash for Bitcoins are incredibly cautious about who they take cash from.

I wouldn't mess with Mt. Gox though, they are based in Japan and getting money out is a pain in the butt. Use a domestic service like Coinbase.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:06:10 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Bigfeet:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Going to come cashing down next week after the new US coin validation scheme gets announced.


Seriously? How big of a drop do you see?


Bigfeet


I don't think any scheme will be announced. If one were, prices would surge.


shush you i need it to go back down so I can buy some more.

Im looking forward to taking BTC for the bullets im going to be doing. HELL of a lot better than dealing with CC. So if you guys are drooling over the bullets I do. well next year you better have BTC.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:09:43 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


That's a lot of questions, so I'll answer a few of them.

> im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it

This has been covered multiple times here, but it's bound by an algorithm. No one really "creates" it, but new coins are introduced into the ecosystem at the rate of 25 BTC every 10 minutes. This will halve to 12.5 BTC in the future, then again to 7.75 BTC, and so on.

> with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it?

Bitcoin is backed by it's utility - which is to say, it's not backed by anything tangible. It's worth what someone will trade for it.

> and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol?

Technically, you could still sign transactions in the absence of a network, given that you trust the giver not to double-spend. Realistically, if the Internet is down you're fucked anyhow and dollars aren't going to be worth anything either.

> if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

*shrug* Then outlaw it. I don't really give a fuck what the state "allows".

> ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it.

Smart. Don't invest in something you don't understand.

> it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid

Bitcoin isn't a commodity. As people join in the economy and buy coins, their utility actually increases because more people accept them.

> so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation?

There is no inherent value in Bitcoin. Anyone who holds Bitcoin gains form speculation.

> would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin?

Doubtful - but then, the US Goverment isn't issuing bonds in Euros either, so I don't see what difference it makes.

> can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin?

Probably not, it's not yet widely accepted at brick-and-mortar places. Plus, a lot of gun stores don't even take credit cards; it's a old-school kind of industry.

Here's a site selling gun parts in BTC.

> can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it?

Probably not directly, yet. Gyft.com sells gift cards for Bitcoin to a ton of retailers, including Marriot and Amazon.com - so there are lots of places you can spend it within minutes. There are a couple of major resorts taking it now as well.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:11:38 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By minimalist:
For all of the naysayers, I have a friend who bought bitcoins when they were $17. He's laughing all the way to the bank.



people make vast fortunes off of bubble markets

I know guys who retired in their 20s off of the stock market dot-com boom

during the time of the dot-com boom there were countless magazine articles assuring everyone that "the old rules don't apply anymore" because of the internet and that a PE ratio of infinity was normal because of this newfangled internet.

in other words, it wasn't a bubble market, paying $500 a share for an internet dogfood company with no employees and no product was the "new normal".



And there were others who suddenly had paper fortunes, the bubble popped, their dotcom crashed, their stock became worthless...and they were there in their 20s with no job and no money, but owing the IRS over a million dollars in capital gains taxes.


How could you owe capital gains taxes if you have net loss of capital? If they had sold and realized such gains, they wouldn't have lost their money when the bubble popped. Are you saying they sold a bunch of stock, sat on the cash for 6 months or more, then re-invested it?


Exercising stock options is a taxable exchange. Say I have options of $5 for 1000 shares of a company whose shares are worth $1,000 each. I exercise those, and spend $5,000 for $1,000,000 of stock - a capital gain of $995,000. That stock then tanks, to $5 / share. I'm back to my initial investment of $5,000, but still ower taxes of that $995,000 I "made"
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:12:31 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Luchs:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?



Bubble pop. I think, at least.

I am reminded of historic things like the Hunt Bros and the silver market.


The thing is, the market for silver was established at that time. No one was discovering silver as a currency, so the price movements were a direct result of market manipulation.

Bitcoin isn't established. It's not a stock, it's a currency - its value vs. the USD reflect the desire of people to own or use it.

When a commodity like silver suddenly skyrockets in price, it's obvious that eventually it has to crash; nothing fundamental about silver has changed. When Bitcoin takes off, it could be manipulation or it could be new, sustained demand in the market. It doesn't have to come back down to where it was, because the fundamental nature of what it is has changed.

I believe the current surge in price is mostly fueled by media and speculators. even so, I believe it was stabilize far above where it was when it began to increase, because the Chinese are coming on board during the runup. Further, you're beginning to see Bitcoin in places where it never would have been seen a year ago (like on a Travelers' Box in Ataturk International Airport in Istanbul, Turkey.

I firmly believe Bitcoin has reached the point where it is no longer a toy. The market cap of all Bitcoins in circulation is greater than Afghanistan's GDP. It's at least as viable as the majority of the world's national currencies.


the question I would have is - what would it take to make people sour on it and not accept it as payment?

If I'm reading this correctly you believe that it is presently too big to fail


Nothing is too big to fail. I'm saying I believe it is no longer a small-time thing, and is in the same league as most third world currencies.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:21:45 PM
[Last Edit: 11/17/2013 10:22:21 PM by bakelitedonuts]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.


You are a fucking liar.

Prove me wrong. If they're so easy to counterfeit, send me 10 fake BTC - here's the address: 13mj3WicBJTX1195wzFERW5v2yDQeQW2kh. Do it, and I'll apologize and leave Arfcom in disgrace.

For those of you in the peanut gallery, the address is linked to Blockchain.info's representation of the public ledger. If money gets sent there, it'll show up immediately. It won't though because wikileaks is a fucking liar.




While you send those to him, go ahead send me a few also 1LBeY6o3mjn2VQzUakR1jXRXUinrwn5YSX I am sitting at a whopping 0 bitcoins
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:33:42 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


You should be cautious but I can answer a few of those things.

how is a bitcoin created and who creates it?

Bitcoins are created by "miners" who run programs on their computers which solve math problems to reveal Bitcoins. The original protocol was set up so that over time, 21 million units of the currency would be revealed over something like 30 years. The rate of discovery goes down over time as the difficulty to reveal them goes up. The base of miners is widely distributed with thousands of people around the world engaged in the activity. You can do it yourself on your own computer though at this point the difficulty level is so high that it would not be profitable for you.

The very act of mining is what powers the currency in the first place. While miners are revealing coins, they are also processing transactions by the act of mining. For a transaction to be "accepted" by the general ledger, it has to get confirmations from multiple miners across the world. The process of revealing coins by mining is the incentive built into the protocol to get people to use their computing power to run the network.

with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it?

Bitcoins only value is it's usefulness and it's userbase. That's it. There is no intrinsic value of Bitcoin just like there is no intrinsic value of a Federal Reserve Note. The reason it has "value" on any level is because of the things it can do that cash and credit can't. The reason for it's current value is the number of people using it. If use goes down, price goes down. If use goes up, price goes up.

and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol?

An EMP wouldn't be enough. The protocol is distributed across the globe so you would need to shut down every participating computer on the internet to kill it. It's very difficult to kill.

if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

It's a global digital currency with no centralized controlling entity. No single government has the power to control it.

so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation?

Much of the value is speculation but as mentioned earlier, there is inherent value in what the Bitcoin can physically do. The value is in the design of the Bitcoin. It's actual price will vary depending on the number of people and amount of cash that needs to utilize Bitcoin to accomplish whatever legal or illegal activity they need it to.

can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it?

This is what's coming. Some places already take it. I'd sell you a gun for Bitcoin right now and I'd be happy to do it at market bid rates. If I was selling something on the EE, I would rather take Bitcoin for payment than Check or Money Order because you can't fake it (for all intents and purposes) and I don't have to wait to get my money. I'll know within minutes that the transaction was legit and have them converted to USD shortly thereafter.

Because Bitcoins can be moved quickly and for next to nothing, it would be very easy for a retailer to integrate Bitcoin as an accepted payment form and use whatever exchange rate is available at the time of the sale for setting the BTC price of an item priced in USD. They can take your Bitcoin as payment and automatically covert it to USD in a matter of seconds.

I do not see why a retailer would want to discount Bitcoins. They are far cheaper to transact than credit cards. Coinbase charges retailers 1% to accept and cash out Bitcoins to USD compared to the typical 3% by credit card companies. Retailers should love it.



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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:34:22 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By bakelitedonuts:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.


You are a fucking liar.

Prove me wrong. If they're so easy to counterfeit, send me 10 fake BTC - here's the address: 13mj3WicBJTX1195wzFERW5v2yDQeQW2kh. Do it, and I'll apologize and leave Arfcom in disgrace.

For those of you in the peanut gallery, the address is linked to Blockchain.info's representation of the public ledger. If money gets sent there, it'll show up immediately. It won't though because wikileaks is a fucking liar.




While you send those to him, go ahead send me a few also 1LBeY6o3mjn2VQzUakR1jXRXUinrwn5YSX I am sitting at a whopping 0 bitcoins

Ill take some too at the address in my sig line.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:41:21 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

Putting aside the rest of the drivel in your post. THIS is gold .... pure comedy gold.


Yeah, that's rich. 256-bit is 2^256 or 1.1x10^77 possible combinations. Good luck. A billion years wouldn't even be enough time.



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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:43:13 PM


Why hasn't this been posted yet in this thread?


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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:47:05 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sturmgeist:


Why hasn't this been posted yet in this thread?

http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/reading-is-for-faggots.jpg




little help for our 13 friend




Thank you Drmgallen for the membership.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:47:21 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

Putting aside the rest of the drivel in your post. THIS is gold .... pure comedy gold.


Yeah, that's rich. 256-bit is 2^256 or 1.1x10^77 possible combinations. Good luck. A billion years wouldn't even be enough time.

http://m.eet.com/media/1158621/aes_security_fig4.jpg


Nah, I'm sure he'll be able to do it. Just watch the address, I'll soon be 10 counterfeit BTC richer.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:50:00 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

Putting aside the rest of the drivel in your post. THIS is gold .... pure comedy gold.


Yeah, that's rich. 256-bit is 2^256 or 1.1x10^77 possible combinations. Good luck. A billion years wouldn't even be enough time.

http://m.eet.com/media/1158621/aes_security_fig4.jpg


Nah, I'm sure he'll be able to do it. Just watch the address, I'll soon be 10 counterfeit BTC richer.


Hey, if there so easy to counterfeit, why not make it 1,000? Amirite?

15UmFHrUefBQCrGRv5D9Ri9sVHQUHnpqnY

Send them ducets on over!

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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:54:17 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By patriot_man:
So for mtgox I see they require physical verification of your identity. What's the point of the verification? Is this to prep for any future financial regulations and laws that will pertain to bitcoin?


Bitcoin transactions are irreversible. If the bank transfer or credit card transaction used to bring cash into the exchange gets reversed, the exchange is fucked since the guy buying the Bitcoins will be long gone with the Bitcoins in hand. Most places taking cash for Bitcoins are incredibly cautious about who they take cash from.

I wouldn't mess with Mt. Gox though, they are based in Japan and getting money out is a pain in the butt. Use a domestic service like Coinbase.


Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:54:46 PM
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Well, i'll see what happens tomorrow, but that sounds like my BTC wallet just went to a "Hold" status.

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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:07:11 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:11:00 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By slabertooch:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?

Capital controls.

I have a friend who is a Chinese national. Our dicussion more complex than I want to get into here while I'm laying in bed, but the idea is that Chinese businesses and the elite have nowhere to put their wealth. Business is controlled mostly by government, and real estate is heavily manipulated. In light of that, what better way to protect your wealth than to store it in Bitcoin, outside the reach of Party policy?
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:11:17 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By slabertooch:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?


Even if a fraction of a billion people want just a little bit of something, that's still a shit ton of demand.

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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:23:59 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By slabertooch:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?

This is an interesting site to watch to get an idea of US vs Chinese purchases in bitcoin: http://fiatleak.com/ Of course, time of day matters, but the chinese rate is still nearly double the US rate even during peak US business hours.
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Posted: 11/17/2013 11:27:51 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By JofoShootin:
Originally Posted By slabertooch:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?

This is an interesting site to watch to get an idea of US vs Chinese purchases in bitcoin: http://fiatleak.com/ Of course, time of day matters, but the chinese rate is still nearly double the US rate even during peak US business hours.
That is impressive.

thanks for the link.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:15:59 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.




hahahahahahaha

You're exremely bad at math. And you've never read anything about bitcoin.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:33:31 AM
[Last Edit: 11/18/2013 1:01:11 AM by minimalist]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By wikileaks:
Originally Posted By 2gun:
im trying to understand something about this, how is a bitcoin created and who creates it? with all the talk about fiat currencies, isnt this a nother currency backed up by nothing but full faith and credit of other currencies being used to pay for it? and should there be a internet crash of some sort emp and all that other stuff wouldnt this be worthless without a internet protocol? if a state is trying to get sales tax to be collected on internet sales why would it allow this to spread unless they can get their hands on some of it as well?

ive seen it going up but i dont understand it and dont trust it because i dont understand it. it seems like another version of the real estate market where everyone said it was always going up because there was a limited quantity so it had to increase in value but that only worked so long as there were buyers that were capable of paying. the govt shored up a fantasy real estate market for a while by allowing even those with no ability to pay to enter the market, that failed eventually because it was not possible for the loans to be paid. so why is there a inherent value to a bitcoin other than speculative value and who gains from the speculation? would the us govt or any govt for that matter sell a bond denominated in bitcoin? can i by a gun at a store counter using bitcoin? can i pay for a airline ticket using this currency and would it be at the prevailing value or at some discount for the merchant to redeem it? these are serious questions and from whatever reading i have done i cannot find a answe rto these questions


A bitcoin is basically something you get after your computer does a certain amount of work. This isn't just another currency backed by nothing, its a currency backed by nothing with dozens of FED reserves able to print off as many coins as they wish. Its like giving 10 people the power to print all the 100 dollar bills they want. With the internet bitcoins would be 100% useless. With the internet, bitcoins are 99% useless.

There is no inherent value to bitcoins. Those who control large quantities of bitcoins gain from speculation. Lets say you bought 100,000 bitcoins for 4 bucks each. Then the market crashes to being worth a few cents. You work with 10 other people, each who own a minimum of 200k or so coins, to corner the market and manipulate it. Worse than that, bitcoins are easily counterfeit (I use easily loosely, but 256 bit encryption is a cake walk for people who know what they're doing).

You can buy a very select few items in real life with bitcoins. I doubt you could buy a gun legally for bitcoins.




hahahahahahaha

You're exremely bad at math. And you've never read anything about bitcoin.


Lol it's hilarious when people get super opinionated about something they know little to nothing about isn't it. It's like the libs on guns. They all freak out because they don't understand them.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:38:48 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By slabertooch:
Originally Posted By Owle07:
Bitcoin now hits a record-breaking $500. It has risen over $100 from $400 in only 4 days.

The Chinese continue to put pressure on the price, surpassing Mt Gox in volume over the last 30 days.

When do you think the price will reach equilibrium? Or are we instead seeing a bubble pushed primarily from the asian markets?

If this is being driven primarily by the chinese...

what the hell is going on in china to drive this?


Certainly it isn't enough to explain all of the activities of those Chinese, but at least a few million (USD) in bitcoin transactions have been done by those, who appear to be Chinese.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:45:35 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By HSimpson:
The No Agenda podcast reports on bitcoin regularly. I thought the most popular use was buying from silk road. Now that they are government managed sales may be increasing.


What is government managed?


The Silk Road. Apparently shut down by .gov but soon reopened for the CIA drug distribution ring.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 12:56:39 AM
[Last Edit: 11/18/2013 1:24:39 AM by ragedracer1977]
It looks to me like $500 is a resistance level.

Yes, it has exceeded $500 on Mt. Gox, but Mt. Gox is inflated, due to the withdrawal issues. It looks like most other trading platforms are hovering just under 500. When/If they break out of $500.... Things could get interesting.

ETA: and less than 30 minutes later, bitstamp is over $512.

Jeez.
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My LTC miners have been offline since June Hopefully LTC climbs again too.
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[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
It looks to me like $500 is a resistance level.

Yes, it has exceeded $500 on Mt. Gox, but Mt. Gox is inflated, due to the withdrawal issues. It looks like most other trading platforms are hovering just under 500. When/If they break out of $500.... Things could get interesting.

ETA: and less than 30 minutes later, bitstamp is over $512.

Jeez.


BTC-e shows $541
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Posted: 11/18/2013 1:52:57 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:

I always enjoy watching the nay-sayers continue their bleating as the market passes them by.


... Oh you're publicly mistaken, my portfolio is doing just fine

Thank you


People were making fun of me on this forum when I bought thousands of bit coins at 5 dollars.

It's funny, I'd really like to hear it from them now.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 1:53:22 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
It looks to me like $500 is a resistance level.

Yes, it has exceeded $500 on Mt. Gox, but Mt. Gox is inflated, due to the withdrawal issues. It looks like most other trading platforms are hovering just under 500. When/If they break out of $500.... Things could get interesting.

ETA: and less than 30 minutes later, bitstamp is over $512.

Jeez.


525. Heh
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[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
It looks to me like $500 is a resistance level.

Yes, it has exceeded $500 on Mt. Gox, but Mt. Gox is inflated, due to the withdrawal issues. It looks like most other trading platforms are hovering just under 500. When/If they break out of $500.... Things could get interesting.

ETA: and less than 30 minutes later, bitstamp is over $512.

Jeez.


525. Heh


I'm not complaining... On paper, I'm up over $100 per coin... Since Thursday.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 2:04:12 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:



I'm not complaining... On paper, I'm up over $100 per coin... Since Thursday.


Same thing my wife just said.
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Posted: 11/18/2013 2:05:50 AM
[Last Edit: 11/18/2013 2:06:04 AM by Sturmgeist]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Kstanton:
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
Originally Posted By HKUSP45C:

I always enjoy watching the nay-sayers continue their bleating as the market passes them by.


... Oh you're publicly mistaken, my portfolio is doing just fine

Thank you


People were making fun of me on this forum when I bought thousands of bit coins at 5 dollars.

It's funny, I'd really like to hear it from them now.


You're obviously a meth-smoking cyber-terrorist!
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Interesting. I haven't been checking on it for a bit, but again arfcom rings the bell and I get to watch yet another event. The troll box is fun to watch while these surges happen
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[Last Edit: 11/18/2013 3:01:12 AM by rightwingnut]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Mossberg:
I'm probably going to show my ignorance here but, what do you actually get when you get a bitcoin?

Just some internet code?


it is a public ledger in the sky,...
...that anyone can look at, that consensus agrees upon, that such and such bit coins belong to this or that "address" or "wallet."

Imagaine that you were starting a civilization w/ a bunch of ship wrecked people on a remote island. To facilitate efficent trade, everyone agrees to be issued 1000 credits. Instead of being issued paper or shells or whatever, y'all just write a big table on a cave wall, listing everyone's names and balances. Lets say that the cave is blocked off by a big fuckig boulder that most of the villiage has to cooperate to move aside. Whenever a transaction is executed, everyone assmbles to move the boulder, witness and certify the transfer of credits from one party to the other. On the side a note is written that Jim sells sally 20 coconuts for 32 credits, and then the 32 credits are written in to jim's toatl and subtraced from sally's on the table, then everyone moves the boulder back so that the ledger can't be altered in the night by a theif.

The analogy is funny, but i heard there was actually some primitive tribe that did just that, maybe not w/ the cave and the boulder and all, but chisling the ledger in stone.

W/ the BC protocol/ledger, instead of listing that X coins belong to John smith, it shows them as belonging to walled address xyex4388dedue.... Now, for that wallet address to send or receive a BC on the public ledger, (which exists among a decentralized network of miner's) you have to enter an encryption key (password). If the passcode is lost, those bit coins are forever locked in that wallet. Over time, some coin will be lost due to accidents and hence the currency is naturally deflationary. You know that that means, you can save (some of) your credits away and they will be worth more in the future!!! Not only does BC antiquate banks in terms of providing a free way to transfer funds anywhere w/o fees and centralized routing points that can be controlled by authority, but also enables you to accrue wealth in your savings w/o havng turn them over to a third party (crookd bankers). That and it is completely out of the hands of an gov/ruling class/central bank to manipulate at will.

The future is a bitcoin/gold system. or just BC alone (or another better crypto currency perhaps).

gonna post a new thread w/ the above to help peole understand.
SimonPhoto
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Posted: 11/18/2013 9:27:09 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By HSimpson:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By HSimpson:
The No Agenda podcast reports on bitcoin regularly. I thought the most popular use was buying from silk road. Now that they are government managed sales may be increasing.


What is government managed?


The Silk Road. Apparently shut down by .gov but soon reopened for the CIA drug distribution ring.


Again, prove it.

Silk Road is still shut down. There are numerous "me-too" sites out there that offer similar services, just as there were before the shutdown. There is at least one decent distributed service out there that I've been monitoring as well.

The "CIA" has not begun running Silk Road.
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HKUSP45C
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Posted: 11/18/2013 9:52:50 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By HSimpson:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By HSimpson:
The No Agenda podcast reports on bitcoin regularly. I thought the most popular use was buying from silk road. Now that they are government managed sales may be increasing.


What is government managed?


The Silk Road. Apparently shut down by .gov but soon reopened for the CIA drug distribution ring.


Again, prove it.

Silk Road is still shut down. There are numerous "me-too" sites out there that offer similar services, just as there were before the shutdown. There is at least one decent distributed service out there that I've been monitoring as well.

The "CIA" has not begun running Silk Road.


Of course they have. Where else are they going to unload the BTCs they got from the seizure of TSR assets? Sheesh.

Besides, we all know they need a "slush fund" for the black ops in Mexico and to supply the inner cities with crack and 40 oz malt liquor to keep the black man down. Haven't you been paying attention?
O, see the darkness yielding
That tore the light apart
Come healing of the reason
Come healing of the heart
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