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orkman
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Posted: 8/31/2012 12:32:36 AM
Have the shifting zero issues been solved in the gen 3s?
Would an ACOG with RMR on top be more effective? Or EOTech with magnifier?

I am thinking of one for a MK18 build when my stamp comes back. But is the BDC still effective with a 10.3" barrel. Not enough deviation to worry about it?

Thanks!
Mblades
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Posted: 8/31/2012 1:02:15 AM
Originally Posted By orkman:
Have the shifting zero issues been solved in the gen 3s?
Would an ACOG with RMR on top be more effective? Or EOTech with magnifier?

I am thinking of one for a MK18 build when my stamp comes back. But is the BDC still effective with a 10.3" barrel. Not enough deviation to worry about it?

Thanks!


Do a search for Augee's review it's got a lot of good info. The zero shift is a non issue as long as you zero it on 4x.
TNgan
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Posted: 8/31/2012 1:52:44 AM


If you planing to use a red dot on top, then may as well get the Spector OS X4 model. Which is 5 oz lighter and $600 cheaper.

The BDC is calibrated for 16" barrel firing 62 gr SS109.
orkman
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Posted: 8/31/2012 2:23:02 AM
Thanks for the replies. Are there places selling the SU-230 model or is that a no-go for civilians?
cmcflex
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Posted: 8/31/2012 8:30:47 AM
Originally Posted By orkman:
Thanks for the replies. Are there places selling the SU-230 model or is that a no-go for civilians?


There are no more SU230s available. Best bet is to hope for a private seller to get rid of theirs, but it will be pricey. I was lucky enough to get one of the last ones. If you search long enough, you will probably find one.


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HighInput
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Posted: 8/31/2012 9:48:45 AM
not going to talk you out of one because they ROCK.

zero issues have been taken care of with Gen2, I believe. Gen3 are definitely GTG.
the ARMS mounts were a problem for some end users, question is, how often are
you going to be taking it on/off anyways...? I never do, plus, it's possible to install
the newer, adjustable ARMS mounts.
supposed to be an easy+cheap retrofit, I don't even see a reason to do so.

presently, a limited number of civilian Specters in FDE are for sale...they go for about
2000 (check ebay) and give you that "SOCOM" look I do believe they have the
commercial reticle, though.

expensive glass for sure...you can definitely find something for a lot less that does
the same thing (Valdada Pitbull comes to mind) but the Spectres are BOMBPROOF,
have exceptional clarity and there's just SOMETHING about them...I dunno

like Flex said, check the EE and ebay, the "real" SOCOM model pops up from time to
time but they go for 2300-2900 if accessories are included. And you can always get
the commercial version in black, sells for about 1800 and used deals around 1500 can
be found if you're patient.
JonJR
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Posted: 8/31/2012 10:33:48 AM
CONS
Battery life
Cost
not as good for CQB as a red dot like aimpoint


I went with the following

Trijicon TR24
or
Aimpoint red dot with magnifier and flip mount
or
both for the same price
BigHat
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Posted: 8/31/2012 11:09:41 AM
[Last Edit: 8/31/2012 11:14:06 AM by BigHat]
Originally Posted By JonJR:
CONS
Battery life
Cost
not as good for CQB as a red dot like aimpoint


I went with the following

Trijicon TR24
or
Aimpoint red dot with magnifier and flip mount
or
both for the same price



Sorry, can't talk you out of what I think is the best overall optic for a carbine one can buy.

Battery life is a non-issue unless you think the world is going to end. Sorry, I'm not pretending I'm in combat in the middle of nowhere and will be fighting 24/7 for months w/no resupply. Put a spare somewhere in your gear and you're set. This very minor negative is overwhelmed by the superior attributes of the Elcan.

Cost? Okay, each of us has to look at it as a value proposition. I favor the Elcan. In fact, I bought a second one (7.62 reticle) I like it so much. It's the most versatile optic one can buy.

CQB? A T-1 only excels over the Elcan in CQB if the lightest rifle possible is important to you. Personally, I'm dumping all my M4s models and all but one T-1. I'm going to the Trijicon SRS and away from AP for the same reason I like Elcan. MUCH better glass and superior field of view and I've found better FOV is what makes me faster.

TR24 isn't remotely close to doing what this does. Good optic but truly an "apples and oranges" comparison. I have a Swarvoski Z6i 1-6X. Excellent optic but again, in a different niche. Variables are interesting. I've read 99% of the time a 1-4x or a 1-6x is either at 1x or 4/6X. In other words, the intermediate settings are rarely used. Elcan knows this so you quickly can flip between where you want to be.

AP red dot and a 3x mag might be the biggest f-ing Rube Goldberg set-up I've ever used. Yes, I had that set-up in LaRues mounts and it sucked so badly I sold it immediately.
orkman
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Posted: 8/31/2012 11:52:51 AM
AP red dot and a 3x mag might be the biggest f-ing Rube Goldberg set-up I've ever used. Yes, I had that set-up in LaRues mounts and it sucked so badly I sold it immediately.


Yeah I did that too once and the dot looked like a football. I got the correct height mount for the magnifier too. It wasn't noticeable on my 2MOA ML3, but the 4MOA T-1 just didn't work for me and I sold the magnifier. Still love the T-1!
sgwlower
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Posted: 8/31/2012 2:16:20 PM
Things I don't like

The recticle is a 1.5 Moa dot.
It weighs as much as a eotech with magnifier.
It's Canadian, anything goes wrong and it goes to Canada. People with issues have said Elcans customer service is ok, not great in a 2k optic.
External elevation adjustments.
Did I mention it's Canadian?
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!"
DocBach
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Posted: 8/31/2012 4:11:31 PM
Originally Posted By sgwlower:
Things I don't like

The recticle is a 1.5 Moa dot.
It weighs as much as a eotech with magnifier.
It's Canadian, anything goes wrong and it goes to Canada. People with issues have said Elcans customer service is ok, not great in a 2k optic.
External elevation adjustments.
Did I mention it's Canadian?


I had issues with one of my SU230s, the adjustment knob was way too stiff to manipulate by hand. I called Elcan up and they had a replacement out for me before they had the RMA to send mine back.
"Soldier, you need to turn your ACOG off before the batteries die." - PMI Instructor, subject matter expert
sgwlower
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Posted: 8/31/2012 6:38:44 PM
Read other reports of people losing optics for months for repairs, glad to hear you had a good experience.
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast!"
Mblades
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Posted: 8/31/2012 8:11:05 PM
I wish they would switch to the SU230 reticle in the commercial version.
orkman
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Posted: 9/18/2012 11:51:25 PM
Originally Posted By Mblades:
I wish they would switch to the SU230 reticle in the commercial version.


On that note...how essential is the SU-230? Is it mostly for military authenticity? Or functionally it's really not much different in the commercial version.

Thanks!
DocBach
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Posted: 9/18/2012 11:52:33 PM
stadia lines in SU230 are more fine, and the MG points of aims uses a different reticule. I prefer it but either is a great sight.
"Soldier, you need to turn your ACOG off before the batteries die." - PMI Instructor, subject matter expert
orkman
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Posted: 10/9/2012 9:57:02 PM
I need to revive this thread for warranty info. If I happen to get a hold of a SU-230 version, will Elcan fix it if anything goes wrong? Or is it considered "non-civilian" and they won't touch it kinda like Trijicon is with military serial ACOGs?

Thanks!
SilentMark
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Posted: 10/10/2012 8:35:24 PM
I've been saving up for a FDE Elcan and am really close to buying one. I hadn't handled one yet so I went to a local shop today to make sure I wanted to spend $2k on this optic. The only thing I can say is that this optic is amazing! I can't wait to get one!
Bloodsport2885: Because if your riflemen can't reach it, your marksman can. If your marksman can't reach it, your sniper can. If your sniper can't reach it, your arty/air can. If they can't reach it then fuck that target. He isn't even worried about you.
cmcflex
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Posted: 10/10/2012 9:16:08 PM
Originally Posted By orkman:
I need to revive this thread for warranty info. If I happen to get a hold of a SU-230 version, will Elcan fix it if anything goes wrong? Or is it considered "non-civilian" and they won't touch it kinda like Trijicon is with military serial ACOGs?

Thanks!


It's not like that with Elcans, except maybe in rare circumstances. Trijicon won't fix military-issued ACOGs because they know that they were originally sold to the military, which indicates they were likely stolen and sold on the secondary market. ACOGs have been issued by the truckload compared to far fewer Elcans, and those that have been issued are most likely to very specialized units.

I believe the policy of dealers (not necessary Elcan itself) of only selling to military was a way of allocating the very limited amount that were available for sell. There's nothing inherently illegal about them. In fact, minus the reticle and a few markings, I'm not sure there are any differences (except the military versions sometimes shipped with a MRDS mount, pouch, and cleaning kit).

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Posted: 10/10/2012 9:44:59 PM
Originally Posted By SilentMark:
I've been saving up for a FDE Elcan and am really close to buying one. I hadn't handled one yet so I went to a local shop today to make sure I wanted to spend $2k on this optic. The only thing I can say is that this optic is amazing! I can't wait to get one!


I did the same thing yesterday. It's such an awesome optic. Too bad the gun store I went to wanted $2499 for it! I'm all for supporting local places but for $525 more (plus WA state sales tax of 9.5% so it'll be a hand total of about $750 more), I'll order it online.
CSTactical
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Posted: 10/13/2012 12:23:44 AM
[Last Edit: 10/14/2012 1:45:48 AM by CSTactical]
I love the ELCAN Specter DR scopes.
Here is a video we did on the ELCAN we tested the ARMS mounts.


CS Gunworks is now CS TACTICAL.com
Http://www.CSTactical.com
Http://www.Facebook.com/CSTactical
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JonJR
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Posted: 10/13/2012 2:46:36 PM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2012 2:54:34 PM by JonJR]
just shot with it on the military 40 round qual. with kevlar and vest/plates...shot expert and sharp shooter in past

used Colt M4 14.5 barrel 1-4x Specter optic

Kept it on 4x for 50 to 300 meters and it was easy to qualify with but I still like the 3x mag with larue flip mount behind an aimpoint more

as far as the batteries go I prefer a common AA battery that lasts 8 years that I can leave on all the time with out shutting it off in case I need it quickly

as for those that say they can just change the batteries and arnt in combat.....well thats fine to but then why have a rifle like an AR15 then. if you want to play at the range I guess it doesnt matter what optic you get but if youre going to spend 1500+ bucks for an optic I assume you would want the best features. And battery type/ life isnt very good with the DR. I actually like the TR24 better than the DR as well at half the price

if you say you are not in combat or end of world....it doesnt make sense to spend 2k for a sight just to plink at the range. just stick with another optic for half the amount and buy ammo / class time with the rest.
orkman
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Posted: 10/13/2012 10:33:58 PM
Thanks for the extra info everyone.
jaqufrost
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Posted: 10/13/2012 10:44:06 PM
I like my issued Elcan. I just wish I could get a Larue mount for it.

Theyre pretty expensive but they have good glass and work well.
orkman
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Posted: 10/16/2012 2:56:05 AM
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I like my issued Elcan. I just wish I could get a Larue mount for it.

Theyre pretty expensive but they have good glass and work well.


Yeah I wonder why Larue hasn't done one yet. I know they aren't as common as Aimpoints, ACOGs or EOTechs but I love my Larue mounts (and swag).

Stay safe.
jukeboxx13
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Posted: 10/16/2012 4:15:03 AM
Originally Posted By orkman:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I like my issued Elcan. I just wish I could get a Larue mount for it.

Theyre pretty expensive but they have good glass and work well.


Yeah I wonder why Larue hasn't done one yet. I know they aren't as common as Aimpoints, ACOGs or EOTechs but I love my Larue mounts (and swag).

Stay safe.


So are you going to get one op?

The only reason i can think of not getting one is its expensive and the battery life.
orkman
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Posted: 10/26/2012 6:55:16 PM
Originally Posted By jukeboxx13:
Originally Posted By orkman:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
I like my issued Elcan. I just wish I could get a Larue mount for it.

Theyre pretty expensive but they have good glass and work well.


Yeah I wonder why Larue hasn't done one yet. I know they aren't as common as Aimpoints, ACOGs or EOTechs but I love my Larue mounts (and swag).

Stay safe.


So are you going to get one op?

The only reason i can think of not getting one is its expensive and the battery life.


Can't decide! I have paperwork in on a MK18 build and so I am just going back and forth on it. It is expensive for sure.
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