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gunloverusa
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Posted: 10/5/2012 1:33:43 PM
I am expanding my arsenal, building a new AR and now looking at buying an AK pistol. I am deciding between the Centurion 39 or one of the new PAP M92 pistols.

Has anyone had any experience with either of these guns?

These are the guns I am looking at, with the PAP M92 I don't have to pay shipping or FFL, it is a classified purchase, but the draco is far cheaper no matter what, but I have hear they are built really cheap. The Centurion I have seen before but dont know much about.

http://gunsforsale.net/texas/guns-for-sale/zastava-pap-m92-pv-ak47-pistol-7-62x39mm-30-rnd-mag-x2/

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/69679

http://www.jgsales.com/centurion-39-pistol-7.62x39,-usa-mfg,-by-cai.-new.-backordered-p-52442.html
Naga
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Posted: 10/5/2012 1:40:17 PM
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow
CheaperThanDirt
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Posted: 10/5/2012 2:03:40 PM

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.
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ACrews
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Posted: 10/5/2012 2:06:44 PM
I think the PAP is nice... as long as they fixed the single stack bolt for double stacked mags like in the m70 PAPs. Ive been reading but havnt seen anything about these sharing that issue or not. If not then id go m92 all the way
gunnut284
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Posted: 10/5/2012 2:54:54 PM
[Last Edit: 10/5/2012 2:55:38 PM by gunnut284]
Originally Posted By ACrews:
I think the PAP is nice... as long as they fixed the single stack bolt for double stacked mags like in the m70 PAPs. Ive been reading but havnt seen anything about these sharing that issue or not. If not then id go m92 all the way


I don't think there was a bolt issue with the pistols, just the rifles. I'll have to check mine though, haven't shot it yet.
As far as PAP vs Draco, I have both and they both seem to be well made. The finish on the Draco isn't as pretty but the overall quality is good. I haven't shot my PAP yet but I suspect I would just buy whichever was cheaper unless you have a preference for one or the other configuration. FWIW, I intend to get a PAP 85 (5.56) as well. The Mini Draco for whatever reason doesn't interest me.
-"The truth does not require your belief in it to function."
-Genuine science is about gathering evidence and testing the veracity of theories, not cheerleading for a particular ideology.
CGP2
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Posted: 10/5/2012 3:21:45 PM
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?

Liquidmetal
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Posted: 10/5/2012 3:23:44 PM
Picked up a M92 pistol this morning. Let the fun and games begin.
Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.
Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement.
CheaperThanDirt
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Posted: 10/5/2012 3:51:07 PM

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.
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BNZ
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Posted: 10/5/2012 4:54:10 PM
I think the PAP is nice... as long as they fixed the single stack bolt for double stacked mags like in the m70 PAPs. Ive been reading but havnt seen anything about these sharing that issue or not. If not then id go m92 all the way


PAP M92 pistol doesn't have single stock bolt. It came from Zastava ready to take any regular AK 30rds mags!
Dferg10
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Posted: 10/5/2012 8:07:29 PM
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.


I have contacts there and they are not expecting any more MInis. If you have heard otherwise, let us know.
haLfLiFe
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Posted: 10/5/2012 8:22:31 PM
[Last Edit: 10/5/2012 8:49:33 PM by haLfLiFe]
Originally Posted By gunloverusa:

but the draco is far cheaper no matter what,
Where are you getting this information from? The Draco is currently going for more than the M92/M85 if you look on our Prices/Availability List.

but I have hear they are built really cheap.
That is not only incorrect, but whoever told you that is obviously not versed in the AK platform.



"A man does what he must — in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures — and that is the basis of all human morality".

John F. Kennedy
CheaperThanDirt
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Posted: 10/6/2012 3:21:11 PM

Originally Posted By Dferg10:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.


I have contacts there and they are not expecting any more MInis. If you have heard otherwise, let us know.

Same. I don't think there will ever be more minis, but regulars should be here before long.
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N4KVE
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Posted: 10/7/2012 11:48:04 PM
[Last Edit: 10/7/2012 11:49:45 PM by N4KVE]
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.
That boat was supposed to arrive a year ago. Maybe the Somali's hijacked it. LOL.. GARY

Obi_wang
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Posted: 10/8/2012 2:38:19 AM
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Dferg10:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.


I have contacts there and they are not expecting any more MInis. If you have heard otherwise, let us know.

Same. I don't think there will ever be more minis, but regulars should be here before long.


lets hope some PSL's are stowed away on that boat as well...

sdrake100
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Posted: 10/8/2012 3:14:59 AM
Originally Posted By Obi_wang:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Dferg10:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.


I have contacts there and they are not expecting any more MInis. If you have heard otherwise, let us know.

Same. I don't think there will ever be more minis, but regulars should be here before long.


lets hope some PSL's are stowed away on that boat as well...



I have heard that the factory destroyed the tooling for the mags. I doubt any PSL s will come back ever.
Makarov
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Posted: 11/9/2012 9:10:19 AM
I own a DRACO. Nice gun. Flawless function. Chrome-lined barrel (not a big deal for me since I clean my guns) The finish is utilitarian but add a little lipstick and they can look as good as you want them to.

The best thing about them was the price. I got mine for less than $300 out the door. Not really interested in a PAP for twicw that amount
haLfLiFe
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Posted: 11/9/2012 3:18:53 PM
Originally Posted By Makarov:
I own a DRACO. Nice gun. Flawless function. Chrome-lined barrel (not a big deal for me since I clean my guns) The finish is utilitarian but add a little lipstick and they can look as good as you want them to.

The best thing about them was the price. I got mine for less than $300 out the door. Not really interested in a PAP for twicw that amount


Was that $300 used? Because the going rate for a new one is $550.
"A man does what he must — in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures — and that is the basis of all human morality".

John F. Kennedy
BNZ
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Posted: 11/9/2012 3:35:02 PM
As soon as I got M92, I dumped the Draco. The difference was only $40 for a Krinkov w/ correct front sight/gas block combo and rear sight- which is unique for its design. The Draco is almost the same size as my AMD65 w/ out muzzle brake and stock- but less versatile.
mac1045
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:50:13 AM
When I called Century about the missing cleaning rod on my Draco - after seeing so many on gunshow tables that have them - I was told no more Dracos.
Okaraider
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Posted: 11/10/2012 1:29:39 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 1:37:40 AM by Okaraider]
Originally Posted By BNZ:
As soon as I got M92, I dumped the Draco. The difference was only $40 for a Krinkov w/ correct front sight/gas block combo and rear sight- which is unique for its design. The Draco is almost the same size as my AMD65 w/ out muzzle brake and stock- but less versatile.


Actually the Draco is not suppossed to be a Krink and does have the "correct front sight/gas block combo and rear sight" for what it is as a pistol version of the Romanian AMIR which many would agree is even more unique then a Krink. As to versatility yes all pistols including the M92 pistols are going to be less than a rifle like the AMD65 with a "muzzle brake and stock". By the way OP the Drako barrel is chrome lined. I do not think the M92 is.

haLfLiFe
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:00:20 AM
Originally Posted By Okaraider:
Originally Posted By BNZ:
As soon as I got M92, I dumped the Draco. The difference was only $40 for a Krinkov w/ correct front sight/gas block combo and rear sight- which is unique for its design. The Draco is almost the same size as my AMD65 w/ out muzzle brake and stock- but less versatile.


By the way OP the Drako barrel is chrome lined. I do not think the M92 is.



That is correct.
"A man does what he must — in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures — and that is the basis of all human morality".

John F. Kennedy
BNZ
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Posted: 11/11/2012 10:08:57 AM
If Chrome lined barrel is important then the Draco. I have converted two of my (regular AK) SAR1s and SAR2s to have this front sight/ gas block (cost me $80 each)- not difficult at all. The final result is a copy of AIMR ( or Draco) w/ 16" barrel- w/ muzzle attachment, plus wire stock.

The M92 is definitely more desirable, especially for what it is. Parts are not cheap, even when there are available. And you need more than the front sight/ gas block to make it work. I remember in the mid '90 when 5.45 Krinkov kit became available and it was already expensive. Then Chief Thunder got them in from Bulgarian at $200 w/ original barrel- wasn't an issue back then- I bought three kits, lucky me. The 7.62x39 kit became available later, but still more popular due to its caliber. Vector built M92 in pistol and rifle form at one time- and the quality was very high, so was the price- comparing to most AK back then. Then, everyone knew what happened- price went up! All the Krinkov kits- 5.45 or 7.62 were over $1000. But to make long story short, if you like Krinkov design at the price of regular AK - now is your chance to get one very close to original design- minus full auto feature, and folding stock.
BlenderWizard
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Posted: 11/11/2012 5:27:09 PM
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By CGP2:
Originally Posted By CheaperThanDirt:

Originally Posted By Naga:
I own a Draco and Mini Draco and have been happy with both. You may have missed the boat on these since they've been hard to find for the past year now.

There's another boat coming.


Regular boat or mini-boat or both? When?


Century has not said anything but that they expect more.



Been saying that for some time now. A Century Rep told me in April that they were expecting a shipment of 30 or so in May
thehellbringer
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Posted: 11/12/2012 5:12:32 PM
Just ordered a M92 from Classic Arms. I also have a Mini Draco, so I'll post a comparison when I can.
Live for nothing or fight for something.
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joeyc
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Posted: 11/13/2012 3:43:10 AM
IIn oct 2012 i bought a Zastava Cai PAP M92 & a Cai Draco from the same shop ....Both shoot flawlessly...i really preferred the added features on the Zastava...
Okaraider
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Posted: 11/13/2012 7:17:23 PM
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 7:58:08 PM by Okaraider]
Originally Posted By BNZ:
If Chrome lined barrel is important then the Draco. I have converted two of my (regular AK) SAR1s and SAR2s to have this front sight/ gas block (cost me $80 each)- not difficult at all. The final result is a copy of AIMR ( or Draco) w/ 16" barrel- w/ muzzle attachment, plus wire stock.
.


Sounds like an M10? I think in order to be an AMIR the short barrel is more the point than an option? The same way that if you took an SAR1 and put Krink parts on it it wouldnt really be a Krink would it?


Originally Posted By BNZ:

The M92 is definitely more desirable, especially for what it is. Parts are not cheap, even when there are available. And you need more than the front sight/ gas block to make it work. I remember in the mid '90 when 5.45 Krinkov kit became available and it was already expensive. Then Chief Thunder got them in from Bulgarian at $200 w/ original barrel- wasn't an issue back then- I bought three kits, lucky me. The 7.62x39 kit became available later, but still more popular due to its caliber. Vector built M92 in pistol and rifle form at one time- and the quality was very high, so was the price- comparing to most AK back then. Then, everyone knew what happened- price went up! All the Krinkov kits- 5.45 or 7.62 were over $1000. But to make long story short, if you like Krinkov design at the price of regular AK - now is your chance to get one very close to original design- minus full auto feature, and folding stock.


Ya the point is if you want a Krink type (Minus the chrome lining because I think the Soviet ones have such) you should get a M92 and if you want a AMIR style made in the same factory and in some cases with the same parts you need to get a Drako. I think the Drako is actually more exotic and desirable.