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10/24/2014 2:42:22 PM
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shadowdoc
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Posted: 12/27/2013 1:13:54 PM
[Last Edit: 12/27/2013 1:14:37 PM by shadowdoc]
Greetings,

Thinking about doing an M92/AK SBR build before the new trust regulations
kick in.

I realize there are different opinions on whether or not 922(r) applies to SBR's;
however, I don't want to take any chances, and want it to be compliant from
the start. (think of it as a peace of mind thing). And, it doesn't *look* like
it's that hard to do, regardless.

So anyway, once the Form 1 is approved, looking at installing a side folding stock
adapter from U.S. Machinegun:

http://www.usmachinegun.com/proddetail.php?prod=M92-BFA92

So next, looking at the AK "compliance calculator"--

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

...I was going to replace these items, with U.S.-made equivalents:

- trigger
- hammer
- disconnector
- handguard/forearm

(I want to be able to use imported magazines)

Anyone have any input here? (ideally, those of you who have done this already)
Will this plan work? Is there an easier way?

Thanks,

SD












Hunt11
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Posted: 12/27/2013 3:33:47 PM
[Last Edit: 12/27/2013 4:33:40 PM by Hunt11]
It's not really about opinions, it's a fact that 922R does not apply to NFA. A SBR is not a "sporting/semi automatic' firearm, it's a SBR. Therefore 922R does not apply.

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter3.txt


DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, D.C. 20226

MAR 22, 1994

LE:F:FE:RLB
3312.5

Mr XXX
Address
City, State

Dear Mr. XXX:

This refers to your letter of February 28, 1994, in which you
inquire as to whether the making of certain National Firearm Act
(NFA) weapons is prohibited by Title 18 United States Code
(U.S.C.), Chapter 44, Section 922(r). The weapon in question is a
FN/FAL type firearm having a barrel length of less than 16 inches
which is assembled from an imported British L1A1 parts kit and a
domestically manufactured frame or receiver.

Title 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44, Section 922(r) provides that it shall
be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any
semiautomatic rifle or shotgun which is identical to any rifle or
shotgun prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C., Chapter 44,
Section 925(d)(3), as not being particularly suitable for or
readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

However, the Bureau has previously determined that the lawful
making of an NFA weapon would not violate Section 922(r), since the
section only addresses the assembly of "nonsporting" firearms, and
not the making of NFA weapons. Therefore, the lawful making of a
short barreled rifle would not be precluded by Section 922(r).

If you decide to proceed with your project, it will be necessary
for you to obtain prior approval by first submitting an ATF Form 1
(Application To Make and Register a Firearm) and paying the
appropriate $200 making tax. Additional information relative to
this procedure may be obtained from the following source:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
NFA Branch, Room 5300
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington DC 20026

We trust that the foregoing was responsive to your inquiry. If we
may be of any further assistance, please contact us.

Sincerely yours,
[signed]
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
KILLERB6
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NRAMilitary
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Posted: 12/27/2013 9:36:37 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By shadowdoc:
Greetings,

Thinking about doing an M92/AK SBR build before the new trust regulations
kick in.

I realize there are different opinions on whether or not 922(r) applies to SBR's;
however, I don't want to take any chances, and want it to be compliant from
the start. (think of it as a peace of mind thing). And, it doesn't *look* like
it's that hard to do, regardless.


FALSE.
Wake me up when it's all over, when I'm wiser and I'm older.
All this time I was finding myself, and I didn't know I was lost.
shadowdoc
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Posted: 12/27/2013 10:43:29 PM
Here's a link to another thread right here on AR15.com, that
says 922(r) applies:

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=51&t=384804

...I would submit that the existence of the linked thread establishes, at a minimum,
that there are differences of opinion on this matter.

As a further note, the letter posted in the linked thread is from 2009, which a
reasonable person might take to supersede an opinion from 1994.

But my bottom line-- no reason to risk running afoul of the law for just a
few dollars in parts. Thus my post.
Hunt11
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Posted: 12/27/2013 11:02:03 PM
[Last Edit: 12/27/2013 11:07:00 PM by Hunt11]
Well, If you want to go the 922r way, just do what CAI does to make their rifles compliant, G2 FCG, us piston, etc.

shadowdoc
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Posted: 12/28/2013 1:40:38 PM
Thanks... just want to make sure that I have the count correct--
would be a particularly bad move to go to this trouble and end up
1 part short of being compliant...

Trigger kit = 3 parts ($30) [LINK]

Buttstock/Pistol grip = 2 parts [LINK] - I have to buy this, or equivalent, compliant or not

So, that leaves me needing 1 more part, if I count correct; some builders do replace
the gas piston, though this looks like it's a little involved and potentially might not
function right. Why not the muzzle attachment?

Muzzle attachment = 1 part [LINK]



Hunt11
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Posted: 12/28/2013 1:46:39 PM
[Last Edit: 12/28/2013 1:53:07 PM by Hunt11]
I suppose, if you can find a US MFG. for a muzzle booster, that's even better. A booster will give you better performance in terms of velocity in addition to reducing flash.

ETA: A typical muzzle attachment will not work, as it is threaded for the standard 14-1 LH twist, and a M92 is a 26-1 I believe LH twist.

ETA2: I would use this, it's US MFG and will give you better performance;

http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30396 with this you will also need to install a detent set, to retain the muzzle attachment in place I am pretty sure.
shadowdoc
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Posted: 12/28/2013 2:02:07 PM
Yes, thank you, that is exactly the kind of technical input
I am looking for-- definitely saved me a bit of trouble there.

Thanks again!
gamerc
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Posted: 12/29/2013 1:02:22 AM
[Last Edit: 12/29/2013 1:02:43 AM by gamerc]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By shadowdoc:
Thanks... just want to make sure that I have the count correct--
would be a particularly bad move to go to this trouble and end up
1 part short of being compliant...

Trigger kit = 3 parts ($30) [LINK]

Buttstock/Pistol grip = 2 parts [LINK] - I have to buy this, or equivalent, compliant or not

So, that leaves me needing 1 more part, if I count correct; some builders do replace
the gas piston, though this looks like it's a little involved and potentially might not
function right. Why not the muzzle attachment?

Muzzle attachment = 1 part [LINK]

Because the welded on thread protector doesn't count as a part until the weld is broken. However, the part adds one to the total as well, so replacing it with a US made part doesn't help your total. Try the pistol grip (1), butt stock (1), trigger group (3), and handguards (1).




shadowdoc
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Posted: 12/29/2013 2:31:06 AM
Because the welded on thread protector doesn't count as a part until the weld is broken.


I totally see (& agree with) your point; but, if that's the case, then I started with fewer imported
parts anyway, and only need to remove 5 (not 6) to get down to the compliant 10.

Going by http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance and counting up, I'll have
for foreign parts:

- receiver
- barrel
- mounting block
- bolt
- bolt carrier
- gas piston
- forearm (handguard)
- magazine body
- follower
- floorplate

= 10 (compliant)

I kind of like the wood look here, and all I can find for U.S.-made handguards are
railed or plastic:

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=431
http://shop.roninsgrips.com/Yugoslavian-M85-M92-Handguard-Sets-M85M92HandguardsFerruleCut.htm

...but will do some more searching & give it a little more thought.

Thanks!
SD





EagleArmsHBAR
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Posted: 1/2/2014 11:00:26 PM
Mine came with the US booster and I'm going to add a G2 trigger group, Magpul grip, and a US floor plate.
JKrammes
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Posted: 1/18/2014 10:01:20 PM
I'm not following why a US made muzzle device would not count for an M92.
N4KVE
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Posted: 1/20/2014 12:57:44 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By JKrammes:
I'm not following why a US made muzzle device would not count for an M92.
Because adding a US made muzzle device does not remove a foreign made muzzle device on that gun. While you can add all the US parts you want, it only counts when that US part replaces a foreign made part. GARY
nsnate02
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Posted: 1/20/2014 1:06:42 PM
Prove the parts in you m92 aren't US Made.