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iggy1337
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Posted: 3/30/2012 6:58:24 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Ok let me explain:

To own a gun here you have to be in active sport competition.

The ROYAL national shooting body (the KNSA) a private body decides what sports are legitimate, and KNSA always hated every sport except the Olympic shooting sports and is against 'Combat' shooting. I had a discussion about this with a Dutch member here once:


Iggy: With all due respect the KNSA (Dutch Shooting Federation) hasn't been exactly gun friendly (except for Olympic stuff). In the past they have actively worked against some shooting groups (the KNSA has a defeacto legal monopoly on what sports are considered shooting sports and thus who can get guns for their sport) ;
Dutch member: I do appreciate the gravity of this situation. Although the KNSA might have had some issues with some newer parts of our beloved sport, this is mostly a thing of the past. The new head of the KNSA is a lot more open to change than the old one was


Anyway the strategy of the KNSA was to just call for gun bans and basically say that guns are extremely dangerous and that they should only be available to serious sporters instead of slowly over many years warming the public to gun ownership. The president Lord Greven wasted time with reports with titles literally translate to that translate to 'Keeping out the Riff Raff' (Really like it was written by Basil Fawlty).

So without any consultation this elitist club just signed a deal that banned the dynamic sports (and thus the guns used or designed for those sports) and also will give them even more power.

I can however understand if there is a reason to save things for the greater good but in this case it was politically a non issue. The left didn't really care and the media had forgotten about it.
More importantly a .gov meeting of experts from police, experts academics and other fields concluded that no changes were really needed (apart from not issuing a registered madman a gun by an officer fired for corruption).

To make it even worse the shooter we had here never took part in any dynamic shooting (he did rim fire on stationary targets). The KNSA could have made a big deal of all this (remember there as no media frenzy or political controversy anymore) and refused to betray a legitimate sport (its called buffing). But then they always hated the dynamic variants and considered combat shooting not a real sport.

So now all our dynamic shooting sports and guns will be banned come November. Those in possession will be allowed to keep them as dust collectors in the safe, no transfer, no inheriting and no shooting.

The only semi autos you now will be allowed to have are for the sports service rifle and pistol, so only guns that have been in .mil service provided:

No magnum caliber guns
No compensators.
No optics (including red dots)
No lasers
Shitty triggers.
No tuning of guns
No adjustable sights (yes the metal ones) on pistols.
No diaopter sights on long guns.

Not certain of all the details yet but it will look something like this.

Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 3/31/2012 1:03:41 AM
OMG., Iggy my friend, why didn't you call a fire mission on this

For those who haven't been aware as I myself wasn't until it was pointed out to me on my FB page just this morning.

http://savedynamicshooting.jouwweb.nl/our-cause

The fire mission petitions link is :-

Link to petition

We are there or here to help any under hand deals or trade off's for our rights, we need to know about them though.

Tony
A Vote less person of no consequence, whose vote isn't worth a fig in yesterday's dictatorship.

Fear Naught

toemag
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Posted: 3/31/2012 1:10:35 AM
BTW pal, I need help with filling that petition out, tried twice now and my name still isn't on the list.

Tony
A Vote less person of no consequence, whose vote isn't worth a fig in yesterday's dictatorship.

Fear Naught

Frens
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Posted: 3/31/2012 6:41:04 AM
[Last Edit: 3/31/2012 6:44:56 AM by Frens]
NLD should ban drugs instead of banning firearms to honest citizens..

btw, need help filling the petition as well...what does "wonende te" mean?
iggy1337
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Posted: 3/31/2012 7:26:08 AM
[Last Edit: 3/31/2012 7:43:21 AM by iggy1337]
Thanks for the support guys. Although I fear the shooting community is waking up a tad to late on this one

The petition is an official one and legal one not some Nigerian scam , do this:

Scroll down, where it says “Ik” – you fill in your name

- Where it says ”wonede te” you fill in your city and country.

- Tick the checkbox if you want to allow your name to be shown on the list. (Do this otherwise your email will be listed as a matter of public record).

- Enter your email address

- And click the yellow box “ondertekenen” to sign the petition

-You will be sent a mail to confirm your signing of the petition -> click the provided link to confirm (you MUST do this)

-You get sent to a page, scroll down and click on the yellow button called 'bevestigen' (you dont have to fill in any axtra info on that page)
Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 3/31/2012 9:14:28 AM
Okay, then my bit was registered, but I didn't click the box my name didn't appear on the nominal role.

Sorry to hear about it being a done deal, hope your wrong on that one.

Tony
A Vote less person of no consequence, whose vote isn't worth a fig in yesterday's dictatorship.

Fear Naught

Frens
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Posted: 3/31/2012 10:23:14 AM
thanks, I'm going to fill the form right now and send the link to other friends

a lot of antiguns/antihunt/antieverything people & politicians here in Italy...
thank God there's an association called FISAT (Italian Association of History, Guns & Shooting) with some good lawyers that help us honest citizens.
iggy1337
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Posted: 3/31/2012 12:55:17 PM
Originally Posted By Frens:
thanks, I'm going to fill the form right now and send the link to other friends

a lot of antiguns/antihunt/antieverything people & politicians here in Italy...
thank God there's an association called FISAT (Italian Association of History, Guns & Shooting) with some good lawyers that help us honest citizens.


Thanks for voting. Here we dont really have any anti gun lobby and the left didnt really care about dynamic shooting. The rule was basicly enacted by the (conservative) party I normally vote for (and wil not do again, I'll just vote for Geert Wilders next time at least they never called for more gun control).

Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
Bohem
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Posted: 4/1/2012 5:26:10 PM
I have to admit, that Czech shooting federation (or how is that bunch of commies called) has rather similar ideas, but its fortunately less vocal and powerful.
Ive voted and posted instructions on strelectvi.cz

Czech pro-gun lobby, they seek cooperation with other European pro-gun organizations and helped to establish Slovakian Legis Telum.
www.gunlex.cz
Tuukka
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Posted: 4/2/2012 9:36:36 AM
Signed.

The link is also posted already on the two main Practical shooting related forums here in Finland.

iggy1337
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Posted: 4/2/2012 6:52:59 PM
Thanks for the support guys, the shooters here are definitely trying to reverse this as it makes no sense whatsoever (our recent shooter was a static rim fire guy)

I really have no clue why this suddenly popped up because the whole matter seemed to be closed.

Our own shooting organisation looks to be the one behind it for the moment as they have stated their dislike for 'combat' shooting in the past
Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 4/3/2012 12:44:57 PM
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Thanks for the support guys, the shooters here are definitely trying to reverse this as it makes no sense whatsoever (our recent shooter was a static rim fire guy)

I really have no clue why this suddenly popped up because the whole matter seemed to be closed.

Our own shooting organisation looks to be the one behind it for the moment as they have stated their dislike for 'combat' shooting in the past


Time for all members to quit that shooting organisation, once 90% of members have sent in their resignation they may start to understand that they dropped a major bollock. What do you call an organisation without anything to organise???

Tony
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Frens
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Posted: 4/3/2012 1:39:13 PM
[Last Edit: 4/4/2012 5:52:08 AM by Frens]
well, I sent an email to that italian association called FISAT with a link to the SaveDynamicShooting website:

They told me FISAT know about this story and they're working on it. They've already contacted Mr. Saul Kirsch (who is he?) and we'll get some updates quite soon on campagnafisat.it


ETA: I've started a thread on TOS too, the more the better
CESM
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Posted: 4/3/2012 4:00:42 PM
There's a quick article, link to the petition (and instructions on how to fill the form) on the homepage of the French Target Shooting Federation (FFTir) website:

http://www.fftir.org/
http://www.fftir.org/index.php?FicheNum=4278

FFTir president Philippe Crochard has signed the petition.


Don't forget to click on the confirmation link send to your email address once you've filled the form.
iggy1337
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Posted: 4/4/2012 12:27:52 PM
Hopefully some good news.

We had public hearing today in parliament and almost all parties though the plan was retarded even the 'Green Leftist Party' (extreme left wing) were complaining about how far the measure went.

Have to go now but hope to update ASAP
Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 4/4/2012 7:04:26 PM
My fingers are firmly crossed for you.

Tony
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toemag
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Posted: 4/23/2012 11:11:29 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17811509

Will this influence the outcome of any new legislation???

Tony
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iggy1337
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Posted: 4/23/2012 5:43:51 PM
The unspectacular answer is 'Not sure yet'

The ban was essentially off the table as our shooting federation (the KNSA) got blasted in its annual meeting and ordered to repeal its agreement with the Minister.

Strangely the main gripe with the agreement was that shooting clubs (who do get a vote) could be closed if a member dint abide by KNSA rules i.e.. wore camo clothing or a cowboy hat while shooting (sounds insane I know).

A shooting club could also be closed if the KNSA found out that somebody was practicing for a non KNSA approved sport. At Christmas it was kind of tradition to put a Tree with balls on the range and the sport would be to shoot of the balls (and win a crap prize), this would have been banned and the range closed if found out.

Anyway there was a multi party government meeting on the subject and even the 'Green Leftist Party' (ultra left wing former communists and enviro fascists ) though the whole idea was stupid. Also the PVV (Geert Wilders) that was part of the coalition actively denounced the measure so the Minister would have a real hard time getting it though.

Now the cards are re-shuffled and I dunno, its all a bit in limbo now until after the election (I was hoping for some good environmental measures to come though like lifting of the suppressor ban )
Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 4/23/2012 6:22:43 PM
Health and Safety .

Fingers still X'd.

Tony
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retgarr
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Posted: 6/8/2012 2:54:55 AM
I don't know how you folks do it. The level of opposition a shooter faces in any European country is immense. You have my respect for fighting the good fight, I think I would just get depressed.
Support a VZ58 subforum here! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=2&t=899608&page=1
toemag
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Posted: 6/8/2012 3:31:42 AM
Originally Posted By retgarr:
I don't know how you folks do it. The level of opposition a shooter faces in any European country is immense. You have my respect for fighting the good fight, I think I would just get depressed.


We don't have a choice on the matter. We fight them on any restrictions they announce, some we win, and some we loose, at the end of the day irrespective of our efforts they'll introduce whatever legislation they want to.

The trick to not getting depressive about it all is to have alternative hobbies and interests, not having all of your eggs in one basket so to speak....

Me I like hunting, shooting, any type of firearm including air-guns, archery, and my family. Oh and Zombies, as TBH those leaders of ours are as damn near to being zeds than any other life form on the planet .

Iggy any news??

Tony.
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iggy1337
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Posted: 6/8/2012 7:40:51 AM
Originally Posted By toemag:
Originally Posted By retgarr:
I don't know how you folks do it. The level of opposition a shooter faces in any European country is immense. You have my respect for fighting the good fight, I think I would just get depressed.


We don't have a choice on the matter. We fight them on any restrictions they announce, some we win, and some we loose, at the end of the day irrespective of our efforts they'll introduce whatever legislation they want to.

The trick to not getting depressive about it all is to have alternative hobbies and interests, not having all of your eggs in one basket so to speak....

Me I like hunting, shooting, any type of firearm including air-guns, archery, and my family. Oh and Zombies, as TBH those leaders of ours are as damn near to being zeds than any other life form on the planet .

Iggy any news??

Tony.


Just fight everything and see how far you get. Won't win them all but make sure any new bans are difficult to implement an expensive.

The only depressing thing I find is my fellow shooters who are so brainwashed they actually call for more gun control. At our main (and frankly only) shooting forum I would almost certainly be banned for writing the rather tame:

"I believe people who are law abiding and are already licensed to own a gun should be able to keep this gun inside the home for lawful self defence." (plz Tony don't ban me)

According to my fellow shooters even mentioning 'self defense' harms the image of shooting, the younger generation however seem to be less and less brainwashed.

We did however have a lot of violent robberies (death/paralyzed/etc) here so maybe the tide is changeing, a jeweler for instance and even have a pointy twig in his shop for self defence so you can imagine the robberies here.

Just to note I fundamentally believe that all free men and women have the natural right to posses the means of self defence. Here in the Netherlands that concept had a long history and was always considered a natural right of man. Also interesting here is that you can use a gun in self defence and it will be found legitimate (if the self defence claim is upheld), the bad thing is that you will always get done on the gun possession charge.

At the moment the government has fallen so nothing is happening (this is a good thing) The whole ban thing looks to be DOA so should be safe but if a party like the Green Leftists get in all bets are off.


Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 6/8/2012 9:47:07 AM
Iggy, no sweat pal, you covered the bases that I purposely avoided/neglected to mention , and your opinions are very close to my own .

Tony
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iggy1337
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Posted: 6/10/2012 7:38:47 AM
Originally Posted By toemag:
Iggy, no sweat pal, you covered the bases that I purposely avoided/neglected to mention , and your opinions are very close to my own .

Tony


Kind of figured that , we just have to keep winning hearts and minds.

Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
toemag
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Posted: 6/10/2012 8:26:57 AM
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By toemag:
Iggy, no sweat pal, you covered the bases that I purposely avoided/neglected to mention , and your opinions are very close to my own .

Tony


Kind of figured that , we just have to keep winning hearts and minds.



That unfortunately will be the big test, the sheeple who aren't interested in shooting sports, only see what the media regurgitates and normally after an incident has happened.

They are then amazed at it all, and as they are worried about becoming the next victims of such an incident they are more than happy to have their government look after their interests and enact laws to protect them.....

What we need to do is get more people who have never had any interest in the shooting sports educated and informed of the realities of our sport.

Tony
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iggy1337
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Posted: 6/10/2012 10:44:38 AM
Originally Posted By toemag:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By toemag:
Iggy, no sweat pal, you covered the bases that I purposely avoided/neglected to mention , and your opinions are very close to my own .

Tony


Kind of figured that , we just have to keep winning hearts and minds.



That unfortunately will be the big test, the sheeple who aren't interested in shooting sports, only see what the media regurgitates and normally after an incident has happened.

They are then amazed at it all, and as they are worried about becoming the next victims of such an incident they are more than happy to have their government look after their interests and enact laws to protect them.....

What we need to do is get more people who have never had any interest in the shooting sports educated and informed of the realities of our sport.

Tony


Maybe not so much in Germany but here there is a very slight shift in attitudes to self defence. On the weapons side its very thin but noticeable as we are plagued by some times quite nasty home invasions at the moment.
On the general self defense side its simply getting better as the recent coalition instated a rule were people acting in self defense inside the home/shop would not be arrested if they didn't use disproportional force. Even the justice minister and a couple of Mayors have stated publicly that the would punch somebody that tries to rob them (no weapons but an improvement)
Originally Posted By rabidus:
They can go create their own liberal human centipede since they're used to eating each others shit
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