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rychencop
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:04:04 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
i know i will catch plenty of flak for this topic, but what makes Mr. Costa such an expert in combat? his resume is not all that impressive in my opinion. the u.s. coast guard is probably the last branch i think of when it comes to combat operations. just curious as to where his small arms expertise and techniques originated. flame on!

"Chris Costa | President & Director of Training
Chris Costa spent 7 years in the private sector at Applied Marine Technologies Inc. and Linxx on assignment with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Risk Management Division (RMD). At AMTI and Linxx, Costa specialized in Chemical, Nuclear, Biological and Radiological environments teaching Police Tactical Operations in CBRNE (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear or High Explosive) environments and providing Red Team Vulnerability Assessments on critical infrastructures for the US Government.

Prior to this, Mr. Costa spent 12 years with the United States Coast Guard, conducting law enforcement and special operations missions in Europe, the Middle East, and South America."
apricotshot
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:11:21 PM
Just look up USCG TACLET. It's similar to a USMC FAST company.
Former member of Lutz Militia, First CivDiv, Camp Couch (1981-2001)

The few always ruin it for the many.
mcg3686
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:11:33 PM
what makes obama qualified to be president....

rychencop
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:13:40 PM
Originally Posted By mcg3686:
what makes obama qualified to be president....



lol...i can't touch that one.
bigbore
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:23:29 PM
it wasnt pretty last time this came up.
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
rychencop
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Posted: 10/30/2009 3:30:36 PM
Originally Posted By apricotshot:
Just look up USCG TACLET. It's similar to a USMC FAST company.


thanks! that explains it some.
Rob_Pincus
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Posted: 10/30/2009 5:57:28 PM
Chris is a great instructor who understands the techniques he shares, the context for their use and, most importantly, how to share them with others.

As to the underlying point of your question: I'd suggest you check out the lengthy thread on whether or not direct experience is necessary to be qualified instructor.

-RJP
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Posted: 10/30/2009 6:03:52 PM
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 6:06:38 PM by rike]
Take a course with him and you won't ask such questions.

If, like many, you can keep your shit straight while someone is shooting at you, defaulting to skills learned in training with Costa and his instructors will increase your chances of survival dramatically.

What else do you need to know? Body count? Number of deaths caused by abrasions by coming near his beard?

ETA: as others have said, he is a great teacher. and I have retained much of the material taught.
Brilliant commentator on the issues of our time simultaneously posessing the qualities of the World's Most Interesting Man and the thoughtful insight of an epicure of common sense and high intellect.
Remman
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Posted: 10/30/2009 6:04:19 PM
Take a class with Chris and you will understand how wrong your assumptions are.
“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” Founding Father Richard Henry Lee
dport
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Posted: 10/30/2009 6:06:25 PM
You're not familiar with LEDETs are you?
Originally Posted By safeways1217:
I will not call you any name but, tomcats engage in tomcattery and you seem to be engaged in asshattery, do the math.

Real Naval Officers wear Black Shoes.
echofivekilo
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Posted: 10/30/2009 7:53:50 PM
Combat experience isn't necessary to be a good firearms and tactics instructor. What is necessary is knowledge and the ability to effectively pass it on to others.

Instructors I've trained with that have been on the "two-way range" don't take about it to validate their credentials; they talk about how long they've spent learning how to be a good instructor.

(haven't trained w/Costa; just my observation from various .mil and civilian classes)
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bigbore
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Posted: 10/30/2009 8:09:50 PM
[Last Edit: 10/30/2009 8:10:26 PM by bigbore]
I don’t think the OP has any question if the quality of the instruction, just where did Costa and his beard come from? I still don’t understand why everyone gets so upset whenever anyone asks about Costa. I have never heard a bad thing said about the guy, but no one seems to know where he came from, or what he did to get the reputation he has today. I’m sure its well deserved, but out of natural curiosity people just want to know.

Costas bio is pretty cryptic and non descriptive, to 99% of the public. I’ve asked well known and respected instructors about him, and they don’t know who he is either. I think the people answering the questions in this thread with a bunch of capital letters bunched together don’t know either. No one would ever start a thread like this about Travis, because everyone knows his story. People like back stories.

I’ve been told several times he’s a war hero. I would love to hear the stories of the action hes been in, who wouldn’t? Some dont like to talk about it some do. If you've taken a Pat Rodgers class I'm sure you've heard a few. I toally agree, If Costa hasnt been in combat, it does NOT make him any less of an instructor.


Let me make a comparison in how things are understood/accepted differently.


The guy on the right is a friend who I’ve trained with and also teaches carbine/pistol classes. He’s no internet sensation and you’ve probably never heard of him, but hes a great guy and instructor.


He’s a 1988 West Point Graduate, Army Ranger 2/75, been there and done that in Panama, Somalia, Central America, and had the good judgment to make his friend Randy Shughart a Platoon Leader in his company. After leaving the Army he’s worked with various Private Security firms in Irag. He has never been featured in a DVD, but I did see him on CNN standing Next to Condi Rice a couple years ago.

No one would question or doubt his resume, because its all things that we know and understand what the they mean and how they would apply to firearms instruction.

If someone would actually explain what Costa’s resume means in terms of actual job descriptions, it would be great. Am I making sense or just throwing gas on the fire?


I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
DBLTAPP
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Posted: 10/30/2009 8:39:42 PM
You can be the "Best of the Best" in any subject matter. If you can not disseminate your knowledge through teaching, than who cares what your resume' says. That being said, look at the golf professional, Tiger Woods. Tiger gets lessons... yet he IS the BEST!!! None of Tigers "teachers" ever won a "Major" on tour, or ever played on tour. You would think that would be a requirement.
I am an instructor in firearms and general topics (LEO), with more schools than I could even count.... I have watched Art of the Tactical Carbine 2. In my experience, Chris Costa is probably one of the most inspiring, motivating teachers that I have seen, not to mention his command of the subject matter. I know it is only a video, but I was REALLY impressed. I would love to actually participate in one of his classes myself.
Chris Costa is NOT the best... There is always someone better out there. But I can tell you this... He is better than me with an AR.
It's all fun and games.... till someone says it's fun and games.
Bassman2
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Posted: 10/30/2009 9:42:14 PM

Originally Posted By Remman:
Take a class with Chris and you will understand how wrong your assumptions are.

This... You'll hear plenty of back story during three days of excellent training!
dport
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Posted: 10/30/2009 10:59:56 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I think the people answering the questions in this thread with a bunch of capital letters bunched together don’t know either.


I don't know about him in particular, but I have deployed to sandy places with LEDETs, so I do know what they do, how they train and what they are capable of.
Originally Posted By safeways1217:
I will not call you any name but, tomcats engage in tomcattery and you seem to be engaged in asshattery, do the math.

Real Naval Officers wear Black Shoes.
apricotshot
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Posted: 10/30/2009 11:40:56 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I don’t think the OP has any question if the quality of the instruction, just where did Costa and his beard come from? I still don’t understand why everyone gets so upset whenever anyone asks about Costa. I have never heard a bad thing said about the guy, but no one seems to know where he came from, or what he did to get the reputation he has today. I’m sure its well deserved, but out of natural curiosity people just want to know.

Costas bio is pretty cryptic and non descriptive, to 99% of the public. I’ve asked well known and respected instructors about him, and they don’t know who he is either. I think the people answering the questions in this thread with a bunch of capital letters bunched together don’t know either. No one would ever start a thread like this about Travis, because everyone knows his story. People like back stories.





Bigbore, that is where he came from. But it is a bit cryptic sense no one really hears about the TACLET guys much. I agree with the rest of your post though.
Former member of Lutz Militia, First CivDiv, Camp Couch (1981-2001)

The few always ruin it for the many.
bigbore
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:19:53 AM
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 12:21:49 AM by bigbore]
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By bigbore:
I think the people answering the questions in this thread with a bunch of capital letters bunched together don’t know either.


I don't know about him in particular, but I have deployed to sandy places with LEDETs, so I do know what they do, how they train and what they are capable of.


Before reading this thread I never heard of a LEDET. Seems like the DEA branch of the Coast Guards MP/SWAT team, more for law enforcement tasks than military missions. I know ICE agents that fit the "tactical" bill more than expected(meaning I can understand there being more to LEDET). I unofficially know of ICE teams "eliminating" roving street gangs in NOLA after Katrina. Are ICE and TACLET similar?

http://www.uscg.mil/History/articles/LEDET_History.asp

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/dot/ledet-pac.htm

Their official Coast Guard description is pretty boring. I have friends in the Coast Guard in a Key West and Corpus Christi, who meet the description in the links. I'll have to drop an emial and see if either of them are LEDETS. They are trained with M9s, M240s, M2s, and shotguns. From what they say, their job is following drug runners for several hours before they get permission to fire on then board the boat.

I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
rychencop
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Posted: 10/31/2009 3:08:54 AM
yea...i had never heard of LEDET either. i do not doubt that he is qualified, i was just curious what his experience was. i knew it had to be more than the vague blip on the magpul site. i would to take one of his courses.
ColtRifle
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Posted: 10/31/2009 5:39:23 AM
I don't know the guy and have never trained under him. I have watched his videos and I would say that he knows what he's talking about and appears to me to be a good instructor.

Combat and HSLD experience is NOT a requirement to be a good teacher.

As far as his CG experience, I have no idea what he's gone through but the CG actually has some pretty good LE skills training. He probably didn't get training from the CG on how to do combined arms with the full weapons available to an infantry battalion but then that's not what he's teaching either. So knowing that stuff, simply isn't needed for the stuff that he's teaching.

I've known a few very experienced and HSLD guys who know a lot but make SHITTY instructors.

I do kind of laugh about his various "highspeed" sounding terms for weapons but if that's his biggest flaw, that's not a big deal. I'd take training from him.
yekimak
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Posted: 10/31/2009 5:40:26 AM
I an not an expert or a trigger pulled or anything but a low end hobbyist really, so take this all for what it is worth.


I don't think it matters. The guy teaches how to use firearms. He does this well from what I have heard and seen in videos. What he teaches is not anything special and is generally covered by just about anyone else that teaches this stuff. The real magic is how he teaches it. You can't get that from having a bunch of letters after your name or a plaque on the wall.

I have not been able to take any courses in a long time, but I know I can watch the Magpul vids over and over. I have another video from another outfit that I cannot watch because the instructor is a fucking doofus who likes to use fancy trade words he made up for everything. I just want to throw something at the screen after 2 minutes.


Any monkey can show you how to tap rack bang. Fewer can tell you why it is done. Very few can tell you everything once and have it stick to the point of becoming almost muscle memory. The MD guys do that while at the same time treating their students respectfully.

Not everything done or used by them I agree with but they are not trying to make you fit a mold.

I respect the MD guys for what they do and how they do it.
Always side with Liberty, even when it hurts.
John_Wayne777
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Posted: 10/31/2009 9:11:01 AM
Originally Posted By rychencop:
i know i will catch plenty of flak for this topic, but what makes Mr. Costa such an expert in combat? his resume is not all that impressive in my opinion. the u.s. coast guard is probably the last branch i think of when it comes to combat operations. just curious as to where his small arms expertise and techniques originated. flame on!


There seems to be this idea out there that somebody had to go through Blackhawk Down or they don't know anything.

That's a pretty fuckin' goofy idea.

Let's be abundantly clear here: There are trainers out there who have served in Tier 1 units with distinction and their courses and instruction are exceptionally valuable...but that doesn't mean they are the only guys who can teach you anything. So if your requirement for an instructor is somebody who has a bunch of scalps on his wall, you're starting out pretty screwed up. I've seen guys who were serious hardcore dudes who killed more people than cancer...but who couldn't teach worth shit and who frankly had some pretty goofy ideas about how you handle a firearm. They were without question bad dudes...but being a bad dude doesn't make you a good teacher or an expert on how to use small arms.

You'd be surprised what the Coast Guard does. It ain't just rescuing drowning crab fishermen. Part of their mission counter terrorism and they have units dedicated to that mission. Their training is CQB intensive.

You may not think that the Coast Guard gets into "combat" because you don't realize that they go after drug runners, smugglers, and other international criminals both here at home AND abroad. Last I knew there were elements of the Coast Guard in the Persian Gulf helping in the Iraq effort...just as there are FBI agents, US Marshalls, DSS, BATFE, and just about every other federal agency.

I don't take warm showers with Costa...although he did ask me to picture him naked once...but I've watched the guy on the line and if he can teach people to run a weapon as good as he can run one, then he's doing them a great service.
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. - George Washington

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John_Wayne777
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Posted: 10/31/2009 9:23:15 AM
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 9:26:01 AM by John_Wayne777]
Originally Posted By bigbore:
The guy on the right is a friend who I’ve trained with and also teaches carbine/pistol classes. He’s no internet sensation and you’ve probably never heard of him, but hes a great guy and instructor.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/stony_gill.jpg


Stony is a very cool dude. If he wants to offer a course when he gets back inside CONUS I'll do my best to be there.

He has never been featured in a DVD,


Ah, yes. The DVD. There are people who take the DVD way too seriously. No joke...I have seen somebody asking what socks Costa was wearing in the DVD.

That's other people's doing. Chris does have a lot of legit training for the 2 way range. Whether he's perforated a number of miscreants or not is ultimately immaterial to me.


No one would question or doubt his resume, because its all things that we know and understand what the they mean and how they would apply to firearms instruction.


That's part of the issue...people hear "coast guard" and think WTF? Similarly, when I say "postal inspector" most people think of some dude in a funny truck and not a guy kicking through the door of a very dangerous and desperate criminal to arrest him...and getting shot in the effort.



If someone would actually explain what Costa’s resume means in terms of actual job descriptions, it would be great. Am I making sense or just throwing gas on the fire?


I get where you are coming from with the question, but I don't think it's a huge concern for most people looking to improve their small arms skill. I've seen Costa shoot and handle his weapons and if he can teach somebody to do it as good as he can, then he's doing them a service.

I've never taken a course with Magpul...but Chris did show up to an invite only Vickers class I was able to attend and I got to spend a bit of time around him. He's a good shooter, a safe shooter, and all around a nice guy. In my conversations with him I didn't get a whiff of anything goofy. (Not that I am the world's foremost expert on this stuff by any means...)
It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. - George Washington

http://www.tacticalimpact.tv/
scottfn308
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Posted: 10/31/2009 11:52:56 AM
I have watched the MagPul Dynamics DVDs, and I changed the way I do some things because of it.
Not that I was doing it wrong, just that I thought their way was better. But by the same token, I did not change
to their way on other things, as I thought the way I do them way more effective for me. I also ADDED their way to
my carbine "toolbox" to make myself more effective. This is what it is all about when trying to be an effective carbine
end user. It is all about how many tools one can have in their toolbox to be able to effectively operate their weapon under
stress in many different situations.

In regards to his resume', I could care less about what certificates he has hanging on his wall, or what he did or did not
do in the military or private sector. Bottom line is, he is a competent instructor, and is very skilled in the subject matter that
he teaches.

Regards,

Scott
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Posted: 10/31/2009 11:55:30 AM
Originally Posted By apricotshot:
Just look up USCG TACLET. It's similar to a USMC FAST company.


FAST job is the as deploy-able element of Marine Security Forces. MCSF job in general to guard things of high value, nothing wrong with the job but most people think it is much higher speed than it actually is.
In the real world off-campus, good marksmanship trumps good will.
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:01:36 PM
Originally Posted By bigbore:


He’s a 1988 West Point Graduate, Army Ranger 2/75, been there and done that in Panama, Somalia, Central America, and had the good judgment to make his friend Randy Shughart a Platoon Leader in his company. After leaving the Army he’s worked with various Private Security firms in Irag. He has never been featured in a DVD, but I did see him on CNN standing Next to Condi Rice a couple years ago.

No one would question or doubt his resume, because its all things that we know and understand what the they mean and how they would apply to firearms instruction.

If someone would actually explain what Costa’s resume means in terms of actual job descriptions, it would be great. Am I making sense or just throwing gas on the fire?




Operations in Panama was in Dec of 1989, a West Point grad of the class of 88 would more than likely still be in his line unit tour to qualify to go to the Ranger Battalions. So he would have probably have been in a line unit and not with 2/75 at the time.
In the real world off-campus, good marksmanship trumps good will.
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Posted: 10/31/2009 12:03:36 PM
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 12:08:27 PM by RenegadeX]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By rychencop:
i know i will catch plenty of flak for this topic, but what makes Mr. Costa such an expert in combat? his resume is not all that impressive in my opinion. the u.s. coast guard is probably the last branch i think of when it comes to combat operations. just curious as to where his small arms expertise and techniques originated. flame on!


There seems to be this idea out there that somebody had to go through Blackhawk Down or they don't know anything.

That's a pretty fuckin' goofy idea.


+1

Charley Lau, in his 10+ years as a major league player, amassed the following lifetime statistics:

Career Batting Average = .255, Career HRs = 16, Career RBIs = 140

Most good hitters can do better in ONE season.

Yet he is considered one the greatest Batting instructors of all time.

Just because one has not "been there, done that". Does not mean they cannot teach it.

And about the Coast Guard - they probably do more CQB operations than any other group I know of.

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